09-25-2010, 10:40 PM
I'm really intrigued by this post and by the discussions it's started online on various platforms. I thought I'd drag JPs comments and mine over here because I'm very interested to hear the EA take on this, and I know you guys won't hop from Twitter to Buzz to Reader to wherever else to follow along - too much work!
Shared via Leslie Poston - Google Reader - Public
Reading: Data Suggests Unemployed, Not Economy Responsible for High Unemployment Rate - A Sales Guy
Excerpt from Jim Keenan in the post by Jim linked above: I found this article a little while back and it has been gnawing at me ever since. The article discusses the Beveridge curve. The Beveridge curve is the relationship between job vacancies and the unemployment rate. According to the Beveridge Curve and the second quarter’s JOLT’s Survey (Job Openings and Labor Turnover) the overall trend in new job openings has been positive, yet unemployment h...
Expand this post »Delete
••• Comments on the Buzz/Reader shared article above
James Burke - Seems to me like a bit of "blame the victim." Slightly interesting in the analysis, but borderline offensive in the conclusions and advice drawn. I'm on board for the "up by your bootstraps" American narrative that so many people with advantages embrace, but the only useful thing I can take away from this is perhaps advice to people to go back to school, if they can manage it. Construction workers are not spontaneously going to become health care workers, even with a couple of courses. Add to that the predatory practices of some online for-profit colleges and the worthless degrees they're pumping out. These people show up on the doorstep of many of the highly skilled jobs that are now available and they can't be hired because they're not prepared -- they were just used for the government loan.
The American worker is pretty battered right now. They don't need an additional kick in the crotch, or facile advice. Retraining is needed, but the deck is stacked against them.
My own suggestion: seek out a community college program that you know will help you bridge to a new job. Don't go into the program unless you know people are getting hired out the other side. That'll at least help people avoid the predatory for-profit colleges out there.
-- says the guy working toward a degree with no hint of a job at the other end.9:56 pm
Leslie Poston - This article caught my eye in particular b/c of a friend of mine (note for EAers, I'm talking about The Dude here, but since buzz is VERY VERY public did not want to make that very public since it is his story and not mine to tell) since high school. Smart guy but thrives in a structured, old-style environment. Went into construction, which already wasn't a fit for his personality type, but made it work for two decades. When economy was booming, he struggled to make himself fit the mold he chose: self employed contractor. He would have been happiest in military or similar, but now too old to enlist. So, here he is, one of the many construction workers out of a job, and thus reluctant to retrain. It's very much about fear, about resources (no money for school after nearly 3 years with little to no work), worried he'd get retrained for a menial job that won't pay future bills, etc etc. He hangs out with many men in similar boats, all who are reluctant or outright refuse to retrain for any number of reasons both real and made up: money, future prospects, "male nurses are gay", "don't want to wear a suit", "we'll be flipping homes again in no time", any other job would make me less of a man?, etc etc etc. So this article rings true to me, if for no other reason than frequent exposure to the blue collar and out of work. If nothing else, it tells the story that we need to a better job at outreach for a certain type of jobless person.Edit10:18 pm
Leslie Poston - also, it is important to note that many community colleges are full and not taking new students - over the last few years they've become a popular and cheaper alternative to those seeking college without funding (or time) for a four year school.
Comments from Twitter during the same time frame (I limited it to JP since you guys know him):
drmomentum James P. Burke
You have to love when someone offers the unemployed advice they've never personally taken. "Retrain for a whole new industry!" ORly?
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply
in reply to @drmomentum ↑
@leslie
Leslie Poston
@drmomentum not everyone was meant to freelance, work at home, etc - some thrive under structure - how to retrain when structures crumble?
1 hour ago via CoTweet Favorite Reply Delete
Mentioned in this tweet
drmomentum James P. Burke
PhD student offering skewed sense of humor, daily travails, occasional URL, infrequent insights. Interests: Cooking, friends, Math/Science Ed, SecHumanism.
Tweets mentioning @drmomentum
leslie Leslie Poston
@
@drmomentum I think it's an issue I've become passionate about sharing & discussing, because I think it's a real problem in need of solution
1 hour ago
leslie Leslie Poston
@
@drmomentum I think I've done that about 4 times, at least
I find reinvention and learning fun but I know so many find it daunting
1 hour ago
•••
Thoughts?
Shared via Leslie Poston - Google Reader - Public
Reading: Data Suggests Unemployed, Not Economy Responsible for High Unemployment Rate - A Sales Guy
Excerpt from Jim Keenan in the post by Jim linked above: I found this article a little while back and it has been gnawing at me ever since. The article discusses the Beveridge curve. The Beveridge curve is the relationship between job vacancies and the unemployment rate. According to the Beveridge Curve and the second quarter’s JOLT’s Survey (Job Openings and Labor Turnover) the overall trend in new job openings has been positive, yet unemployment h...
Expand this post »Delete
••• Comments on the Buzz/Reader shared article above
James Burke - Seems to me like a bit of "blame the victim." Slightly interesting in the analysis, but borderline offensive in the conclusions and advice drawn. I'm on board for the "up by your bootstraps" American narrative that so many people with advantages embrace, but the only useful thing I can take away from this is perhaps advice to people to go back to school, if they can manage it. Construction workers are not spontaneously going to become health care workers, even with a couple of courses. Add to that the predatory practices of some online for-profit colleges and the worthless degrees they're pumping out. These people show up on the doorstep of many of the highly skilled jobs that are now available and they can't be hired because they're not prepared -- they were just used for the government loan.
The American worker is pretty battered right now. They don't need an additional kick in the crotch, or facile advice. Retraining is needed, but the deck is stacked against them.
My own suggestion: seek out a community college program that you know will help you bridge to a new job. Don't go into the program unless you know people are getting hired out the other side. That'll at least help people avoid the predatory for-profit colleges out there.
-- says the guy working toward a degree with no hint of a job at the other end.9:56 pm
Leslie Poston - This article caught my eye in particular b/c of a friend of mine (note for EAers, I'm talking about The Dude here, but since buzz is VERY VERY public did not want to make that very public since it is his story and not mine to tell) since high school. Smart guy but thrives in a structured, old-style environment. Went into construction, which already wasn't a fit for his personality type, but made it work for two decades. When economy was booming, he struggled to make himself fit the mold he chose: self employed contractor. He would have been happiest in military or similar, but now too old to enlist. So, here he is, one of the many construction workers out of a job, and thus reluctant to retrain. It's very much about fear, about resources (no money for school after nearly 3 years with little to no work), worried he'd get retrained for a menial job that won't pay future bills, etc etc. He hangs out with many men in similar boats, all who are reluctant or outright refuse to retrain for any number of reasons both real and made up: money, future prospects, "male nurses are gay", "don't want to wear a suit", "we'll be flipping homes again in no time", any other job would make me less of a man?, etc etc etc. So this article rings true to me, if for no other reason than frequent exposure to the blue collar and out of work. If nothing else, it tells the story that we need to a better job at outreach for a certain type of jobless person.Edit10:18 pm
Leslie Poston - also, it is important to note that many community colleges are full and not taking new students - over the last few years they've become a popular and cheaper alternative to those seeking college without funding (or time) for a four year school.
Comments from Twitter during the same time frame (I limited it to JP since you guys know him):
drmomentum James P. Burke
You have to love when someone offers the unemployed advice they've never personally taken. "Retrain for a whole new industry!" ORly?
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply
in reply to @drmomentum ↑
@leslie
Leslie Poston
@drmomentum not everyone was meant to freelance, work at home, etc - some thrive under structure - how to retrain when structures crumble?
1 hour ago via CoTweet Favorite Reply Delete
Mentioned in this tweet
drmomentum James P. Burke
PhD student offering skewed sense of humor, daily travails, occasional URL, infrequent insights. Interests: Cooking, friends, Math/Science Ed, SecHumanism.
Tweets mentioning @drmomentum
leslie Leslie Poston
@
@drmomentum I think it's an issue I've become passionate about sharing & discussing, because I think it's a real problem in need of solution
1 hour ago
leslie Leslie Poston
@
@drmomentum I think I've done that about 4 times, at least
I find reinvention and learning fun but I know so many find it daunting1 hour ago
•••
Thoughts?