Are you KIDDING me?! No, no, no, no, no! Good grief!
I'm torn. For a student like me, it could have been a blessing and a curse. As a kid, homework grades kicked my butt. I would have very high test scores, but very low overall grades because I didn't do the rote work that helped some students master the material. I didn't need the rote work. I was lucky and learned quickly. It took college for me to start to get good grades because college scores were generally based on mastering the material. In fact, my best professors would tell us to do enough homework to 'get it' and then move on to a more productive use of our time.
But, on the flip side, procrastination is one of my deadly sins. There were assignments I didn't do simply because I couldn't get started on them and get them done. The pressure of a zero would make me 'just do it' (sometimes) and I eventually learned ways to get the bare minimum of a task at least done, and then build from there.
I guess, upon reflection, I am against a no zeroes policy, but for a no busywork policy. Assignments that are meant to help a student master a subject by repetition shouldn't necessarily be graded. The test grade is enough of an indicator of mastery. But, assignments that are an end to themselves (research papers, book reports, etc) should have some sort of major incentive to get the work done.
Amy, you are exactly the same personality as my son...and I support zeros just because of the reasons you state you do. Plus, it's an easy way for DH and me to look at his online grades and see if he's missing something or just didn't grasp the concept.
I was completely appalled at this grading system, but then, I am appalled at sports programs that focus on "feeling good" and "all-inclusive" rather than keeping score and promoting good sportsmanship no matter if you win or lose.
If you do nothing in life, you get nothing in life.
That being said....I give no less than 50% for late assignments. If they tried at all, they get a 50%. I usually subconsciously seldom give an E for work they turn in. I try to give a D- at the lowest if it appears they've tried at all. But a zero indicates no attempt to even try and the natural consequences is a zero to me. Most kids rely on homework grades to bring their grades up not down. Many have problems on tests and homework actually helps them.
I never did my homework
I do my work now. I like it when my paycheck has zeros in it, as long as there's some real numbers in front of the zeros
In our district, 60 is the lowest mark that can be given. I agree, and disagree. I agree that a student has a chance at improvement when the lowest grade earned is a 60..but I have taught middle school far too long to know that middle school students are very bright, and quickly learn that they don't have to exert any effort and will still get a "60".
I have a system...if you do your homework you get a check in my book. If you do not do it, you get an open circle. You have one more night to do it, and I put a check inside the circle. If your work is Incomplete or partially done, I put an I. Both the late work and the I are worth half credit. I average it together at the end of the semester for a grade.
So Angie.
If an assignment is worth 100 points, and the student turns it in late or incomplete, what grade do you give them? And for the sake of argument, let's say they got everything on the assignment right, it was just late, or some of the answers weren't completed.
If it is a homework, the best you get is a check in the book. At the end of the marking period, if I have say--for ease of thought here...I have 10 assignments...then each is worth 10 points. The one handed in late would be 5 points. If it was never handed in...it would be 0 points.
Now if it is a graded homework, that is a different story. Usually something that is graded, is done on a rubric. I will grade it to the rubric, then remove 5 points for lateness. I usually don't go beyond 5 points, unless I have to "hunt" them down for the assignment. If I wait more than a week, for a graded homework, usually it is a failure.
To answer your scenerio Lynn...if worth 100 points...I would grade, then remove 5 for lateness. If some answers weren't completed, they would be wrong. I don't give a lot of fill in the blank handout type assignments though. Most of mine are done off a rubric.
The way we did it at West Point when work was turned in late was to grade the paper as though it was done on time. Once the grade was assigned, then we subtracted 1 full letter grade for any paper 1 minute to 8 hours late, a second full letter grade for 8 hours-1 minute to 24 hours late, anything later than 24 hours automatically failed but would get points (60%). Anything never turned in was a zero; anything that was plaigiarized was a zero.
Also, we didn't give Ds as grades: either the paper met the standard (C or higher) or it didn't (F). A student could earn a D points-wise (turn in a C paper 5 minutes late and it's a D) but not the grade from the teacher.
But then, West Point doesn't seem to suffer from the grade inflation that afflicts other liberal arts colleges.
Grade inflation is rampant in all levels of education. So..now you need a 3.7 or better (it used to be 3.4 or better) to get accepted into universities of choice. But...parents are kept happy and no student's psych is injured. What a bunch of bull.
Omaha is a big school district. Why don't they try this policy out in a few schools while keeping the existing policy in the others? They can revisit it the following year and see whether it has made a positive or negative difference.
I think that most kids who don't turn in homework are the ADD/ADHD ones. In that situation, they probably have some sort of IEP's or modifications. What to do in cases of late homework could be covered in an IEP based on what seemed best for that specific child.
Kids who don't turn in homework can also be those who find it a waste of time (like I always did). I "got it," I tested well, I didn't see the point to doing homework and so while my test grades were great, my class grades were awful b/c I rarely did homework assignments. I think it comes down to what's the purpose of homework: is it to make sure the kids understand what was taught, or is it for something else? If you want to make sure the kids "got" the lesson and learned the skills, I don't know that completing a homework assignment is always the best method of assessing that.
MJ, I agree with what you are saying, and have a hard time with "busywork" homework...that was one of the big reasons we switched to a private school for Jer. Busywork is at a minimum there, unlike the public school system he was in before.
Our school doesn't use the "no zeros" policy - that's across the river - but I don't see that instilling a "no zeros" policy with kids like Jeremy would do any good...he also doesn't see the point in homework because he absorbs the material without doing the rote. He tests like a dream, especially in subjects that he likes.
If I see a zero, I know he's missed the assignment and can ride herd on him to get it done. If I saw a 50% score and he went to OPS, I wouldn't be sure if he missed the assignment, or just didn't understand the material.
50% may be a failing grade, but it's way different from a zero. 50% means you achieved something.
I'm always amazed at how many adults remember homework as busy work that they didn't need to do because they got it. If you truly did well on tests without the homework, then you are right. You got it. However, for every one student that truly "gets it" and doesn't need the homework or the practice there are 20 students not doing it and not getting it either. They think they do but they don't and it usually shows on their test scores. That's when we get to meet with parents who say their children don't do the work because they are bored and because we aren't actively entertaining them and motivating them, they aren't doing well on the tests....never is it because they don't do the homework. Homework also can be productive busy work that teaches responsibility and the precept that "in life you sometimes have to do things that you think are stupid" just because. Learning to cope with that is not always easy.
"productive busy work" - to me, that's an oxymornon. But you should be pleased to hear that my not doing homework for years meant I almost failed out of my senior year in high school, because that's when I started to need to do homework and hadn't developed the habit. (Well, that and some untreated clinical depression, but that's another story.)
Hubby generally finds that parents either didn't know (or claimed they didn't know) Johnny didn't do his homework. He doesn't get many telling him that the homework he assigns isn't worthwhile, maybe because it's math and it's easier to sell the need for skill-and-drill. He gives a pass to the kids who know what they're doing and focuses on the kids who need the practice, but his charter school insists on individual plans for each child so that makes it easier to assign the right homework (and right amount of homework) to different kids with different needs.
My nephew failed 8th grade because his teacher insisted he do busywork homework. I know it was busywork, because the kid offered to do more challenging work and the teacher refused - and because his test scores were very high -- and because my teacher mother said so. My sister and my mom appealed the failure and lost, so my mom homeschooled him the following year - including a freshman chemistry course at NC state, which he aced. Once he had successfully completed 9th grade (and a college level chem course) he was readmitted to the local high school as a sophomore the following year. I think the A at NC State was the deciding factor because mom told them she'd just send him to college if they wouldn't let him into high school.
Most homework is necessary for the reasons our teachers here have stated. A very small percentage of teachers get into pissing matches with kids and homework can be the battle ground. My nephew would not have failed 8th grade in a no zeros environment, because his test scores would have made sure he at least had passing grades. My oldest son needed that threat hanging over him to get him to turn in the valid and valuable homework he had completed and was lugging around with him. I'm not a big believer in "no zero" policies, but for a very small number of kids, it can mean the difference between staying in school and dropping out.
One of my favorite homework assignments: Please "study" your notes/vocabulary/lab procedure for 15 minutes. Have a parent sign your homework copybook verifying that you studied.
I can't tell you how many come in the next day without it signed.
No, I wouldn't be surprised lol
I really don't mean to piss anyone off but I really don't know how anyone can expect to #1 get something for nothing (I and everyone I know has worked for what they've earned) and #2 get something from only doing the things they want to and not the drudge that goes along with pretty much anything a person does in life. If we set up kids to only do the parts they like or are good at, then we are setting them for not learning responsibility or work ethics. I'm not arguing that some homework is rote and busy work. I'm only saying that we must learn some rote in life (I even had many college classes that expected it) and that we need to learn that the world doesn't give us individual IEP's allowing us to do only those things we do well or that we like. It can work like that in school but not in college or the work world. But, that's only my opinion
I'm with you Sandy - no work, no points.
(03-07-2010 07:13 PM)Prepoia Wrote: [ -> ]No, I wouldn't be surprised lol
we need to learn that the world doesn't give us individual IEP's allowing us to do only those things we do well or that we like.
I would like to quote this at my next parent/teacher conference!!! How true.
Sandy, I have no idea where you got the idea that anyone in this thread thinks anyone should get something for nothing. The article in the Omaha World-Herald talked about students being given points (50% of the total points for the assignment) even when a student didn't turn in the assignment.
I have stated at least twice that I'm appalled by the idea.
We've morphed (imagine that!) into discussing the validity of some homework that's been assigned by teachers, that could be viewed as busy work by parents and/or students. I strongly believe that there are teachers out there who simply assign homework for the sake of assigning homework, and that at times, this is only "busy work"...it doesn't really benefit the student.
IMO, tying back to the original article and statement, regardless of whether it's "busy work" or something that actually benefits the learning experience, if it's assigned, the student should get a zero if they don't turn it in. They shouldn't get 50% of the assigned grade just to make them "feel better".
My fix for reducing the "busy work" my son was being assigned was to switch schools. Not everyone has that option or can afford to do so, but we believe he is being assigned more meaningful work today than he was two years ago in the public school. No matter where he is being educated, however, I would not support a "no zeros" policy for missed homework.
every state every school district does things differently-different standards, different homework etc... enough already-I disagree with the "no zeros" but I also disagree with 99% of homework assigned.