14 Year old about to be sentenced to at LEAST 25 years in jail

**amykhar** · #1 07-26-2001, 11:41 AM

and possilbly longer. The 25 years is the minimum sentence - with no time off for good behavior possible.

The defense attorney says this demonstrates that America has lost its soul.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/26/br...nce/index.html

The last sentence in the article really got to me. The defense attorney sas:

Quote:

"Any of you who have dealt with 13-year-olds, or have one, know that they get stupid on us," Udell said.

I have a 13 year old, and yes she does stupid stuff. However, I can hardly classify murder as a reasonable thing to excuse for a 13 yr old. By that age, if they don't know killing is wrong, they'll NEVER know it.

Amy

poseidon · #2 07-26-2001, 11:47 AM

Keep the kid in jail for 25 years or more. This juvie crap with letting them out when they're 18 with a clean record is stupid (not saying that's the case here).

Has America lost its soul? No, but I bet this killer has.

vemartin · #3 07-26-2001, 12:00 PM

I can’t believe I am agreeing with Jeff, but here goes: I think the kid deserves any sentence the court sees fit to meet out! Our juvenile justice system is not set up to handle murders, and it shouldn’t be expected to. The boy perpetrated pre-meditated (1st degree) murder and deserves to be punished for his act. At 13 years of age a child knows well enough that taking a life is against the law; both God’s and mans. There can be no excuse for his behavior, nor should there be leniency shown because of his age.

Perhaps when he gets out in 25 years he’ll be a productive member of society…

cristina1 · #4 07-26-2001, 12:03 PM

I am also in agreement of the sentence for this boy. I think that the only reason that you can think "America has lost its soul" is because we are letting young teens think that they can kill and get away with it for minimum punishment. They are old enough to know right from wrong. They are old enough to know better. They are old enough to understand their actions. I dont buy any line that "they do stupid things." This is murder we are talking about - taking another person's life. The man he killed had a family. Tell his family that it was just a stupid teenaged prank.

mtbat · #5 07-26-2001, 12:15 PM

this "child" will never be a productive member of society-he belongs in prison-to try to excuse his actions by his age is stupid-so what are we supposed to do? keep him out of prison and let him kill people until he turns 18? then put him away?

erik_kosberg · #6 07-26-2001, 12:57 PM

Grunow’s widow has more restraint than I think I’d have if it was my spouse who had been killed:
“I do not know what price Nathaniel should pay for taking Barry’s life. I cannot make a recommendation because that is not my job. I do not have the wisdom.”

**MrsNormanMaine**[$] · #7 07-26-2001, 01:01 PM

Why don't we just execute all children at puberty? That would cut down on juvenile crime, stupid actions, and hormonal temper tantrums...

MNM

poseidon · #8 07-26-2001, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrsNormanMaine
Why don't we just execute all children at puberty? That would cut down on juvenile crime, stupid actions, and hormonal temper tantrums...

MNM

Because 90-some-odd percent of the kids out there are good kids, and there's no reason that you should punish the lot of them for the actions of a few monsters and criminals. That'd be the same as tossing all men in jail on Superbowl Sunday because statistics show that it is the one day of the year where more women are battered than any other (I don't have the exact figure, but I got that from when I did volunteer work at a battered women's shelter).

erik_kosberg · #9 07-26-2001, 01:46 PM

MNM’s post is probably based on Jonathan Swift’s book.

For those who have Adobe Acrobat Reader installed, I’ve typeset it in PDF format:
http://www.carney.com/etexts/swift/a...t_proposal.pdf

wivabef · #10 07-26-2001, 06:53 PM

Why don't we just throw a big rave for all kids when they become 13. Then, we'll hand them drugs, guns, sex toys, a 5 year supply of Twinkies (for the twinkie defense) and then say, "Hey -- have at it kiddies. Kill, maim, destroy -- you KNOW it's wrong. But you'll be out of jail in 5 years, anyhow."

Make sure they watch plenty of violent TV, hand them lots of violent video and computer games, show them all the websites that teach how to make bombs and biological warfare weapons. Make sure they are home along from 2 until 7 and give them a big room to hang. Make all their magazines loaded with sexual innuendo and swearing heroes who promote domestic abuse.

See, that way, when they do kill, maim and destroy, not only will they get in 5 years, but it also won't be their fault.

erik_kosberg · #11 07-27-2001, 02:02 PM

He’s now been sentenced to 28 years:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/2001...er_killed.html

KateTPZ · #12 07-27-2001, 02:24 PM

My boys are 8 and 10 - and they know that killing is wrong. They understand that death is permanent. They know better than to threaten someone with a gun. Yes, even years away from 13 they have their moments of stupidity - they're human. But there's a big difference between a prank and murder, between bad judgement and murder. And even my very young kids know that.

Twenty-eight years isn't long enough.

poseidon · #13 07-27-2001, 04:56 PM

I gotta agree. Nathanial Brazill should be going to jail for a lot longer than 28 years. What's he going to do when he gets out? Lessee... he's got no high school diploma or college education (although he can get that in prison), he's got no skills that I'm aware of, and he'll be best friends with other violent criminals for the next 28 years.

Yep, I can see a productive member of society coming out of that prison cell.

And I see a lot of other dead people in his wake.

#14 07-28-2001, 10:06 AM

What were his grades like?

foxfroggy · #15 07-28-2001, 09:58 PM

Oh yeah, 25 or so years in a prison will produce a model citizen! What unmitigated crap! Being old enough to know "murder is bad" is not the same thing as having full adult understanding and impulse control.

Let's just kill all male children at birth, except a very few sperm donors, to be kept locked safely away. Most violent crimes are comitted by males, so that should take care of it. Maybe we could keep a few as sex toys, too, but none of them should be at large.

Not minimizing dangerous behavior at all, but children are not adults. Pretending they are may make you feel "safer" but it treats only a symptom, not a cause. Are we saying that children aren't worth rehabilitatiing? And just how young are we going to go-6? 3? 12? Seven is supposed to be the "age of reason" so let the death penalty begin!

After all, who needs fairness and justice, so much for human rights! This is Bush's America, where might is more important than right. Zero tolerance, tough laws for minors, etc-except of course when the drunk's daddy is the president. What some kids are doing is disgusting, but what some adults advocate is fa rmore disgusting.
Pat

**amykhar** · #16 07-28-2001, 10:05 PM

Pat,
I can tell by your emotional response that you are against the boy's sentence.

However, you have failed to give an alternative way to handle such kids or to provide any kinds of data or logical argument as to WHY the boy shouldn't be sentenced.

What do you think should be done with kids who kill?

Amy

**slick4591**[$] · #17 07-29-2001, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Oh yeah, 25 or so years in a prison will produce a model citizen! What unmitigated crap! Being old enough to know "murder is bad" is not the same thing as having full adult understanding and impulse control.

The government used to preach that prison was a rehab source, but we both know that's BS these days. I think the goal now is to see how long we can keep them locked up for the public's safety.

And the impulse control disorders: I live with a 17 year old male child who gets his jollies from womens underwear. We keep a lock on our bedroom door to keep him out of Tracy's personal stuff. That still doesn't stop him though. He steals his grandmother's stuff and has once gone into the neighbor's home and stolen her underwear. He still knows murder is wrong. Yep, I know there are different levels, but where is the line drawn?

The last capital case I worked was on a 17 year old who put a 12 guage to one store clerk's head and pulled the trigger (not a pretty sight). He also assisted in another murder (the shooter was 16). The only link I can find is where he is looking for a pen pal. Gustavo Garcia is on Texas' Death Row. I tried to find more links on him, but The Dallas Morning News has them archived and I'm not a paying subscriber.

During Gustavo's first trial his shrink testified that two victims were Gustavo's limit to murder. I passed a note to my prosecutor asking him to ask the shrink how many more people Gustavo would have to kill for him (the shrink) to change his mind. The answer was, "One." I'm not one to wait and see if the shrink was wrong.

When his appeal was confirmed he was brought back for the second trial. He was found with a knife on his way to the courtroom. Just how much pitty does one have to have for children who will kill you just for the sake of killin'? Took a second jury to confirm the first decision. He's still on death row, and I'm still glad.

Dunno, Pat, but come and work my caseload for a while and you may somewhat change your mind. I could go on with more examples, but I only have hundreds of them, and I've only worked "Juvenile" two and a half years.

Oh yeah, Gustavo didn't kill for money. He killed for a couple of cases of beer.

**pluckyduck** · #18 07-29-2001, 08:41 AM

I am usually opposed to juvenilles being handled within the adult court system, but there are exceptions and this is one of them.

I can appreciate that a teenager may have trouble understanding the consequences of stealing a car or even robbing a 7-11, and I can appreciate that dealing with that teenager compassionately might be the difference in helping them to have a second chance at a decent adult life. This, however, is cold-blooded, premediated murder, nothing more, and I think the sentence was fair.

Breaks my heart. How does a 13 year old get like this?

Is it just a Bad Seed sort of thing (remember that movie??) Perhaps he is a sociopath, unable to grasp right/wrong or care about right/wrong? Maybe there is something organically wrong with his brain that is at the root of this?

I wish we had another choice. I wish someone could say "Aha, I've done a brain scan and I see what's wrong and we can fix it." Then I'd say, oh fine, fix him on up, put him in a juvenille treatment facility for a few years for observation and let's lead him toward a good life.

Maybe we'll have real answers to these kinds of questions someday. Virtually all sex offenders, especially pedophiles, c'mon, there is something wrong with their brains. These people are not able to be rehabilitated. It's not a social problem, it's not even a morality problem, there is something wrong with them.

What to do, though, what to do?

Right now, the only thing to do is to protect the public from them. I do hope there is a better answer someday.

Andrea

mtbat · #19 07-29-2001, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pluckyduck

Right now, the only thing to do is to protect the public from them. I do hope there is a better answer someday.

Andrea [/b]

So do I Andrea.

14 year olds do stupid impulsive things-they shoplift, borrow cars, but there are consequeces to those things no matter how old you are. okay give a kid who steals a break-

you CAN'T give a kid who murders in cold blood a second chance-

there is a world of difference between a murder that happens in the heat of a fight and in the heat of anger and a murder that happens when there is plenty of time to stop-

this kid had plenty of time to STOP. he went home, got the gun, came back and shot the teacher-he had TIME to stop-he didn't. he knew what he was doing, he shows no remorce no sorrow other than he is sorry that he is spending the rest of his life in jail.

Maybe these types of killers are just missing "something" inside. that something that stops regular people from doing this kind of thing. that something that would have made anyone else say-wait, do I really want to do this?

I don't know what the answere is-I wish I did-I wish there were a way to make this 14year old "better" to make sure that he won't do this again-but there isn't and kids like this don't usually stop at just one murder-what's to stop him from doing this with the next teacher who makes him mad?

If he is let out of jail, basically told-it's okay, you made a mistake but we won't punish you this time-chances are he will do it again.

and we cannot let that happen and unfortunatly that means locking up a 14 year old for 28 years. there is no easy answere and no easy solution to this type of problem.