I am at my wits end and I need some advise!

CANS4US · #1 07-26-2001, 05:02 PM

...I won't bore anyone with details, but I JUST received an email from a supposed friend. Her son is almost exactly the same age as my youngest and she has been trying to get him diagnosed as "gifted" since he was a year old! She has NO educational training, yet she is quick to judge my son and compare him to hers....with my son always coming out behind hers(in her opinion).

She has money (which we do not) and she has enrolled him in class after class trying to prove to everyone around her that he is "special". True, this child was an early speaker, but he is also extremely demanding and VERY nasty to others around him! He has a history of destroying property and he wreaks chaos on every store he enters...a real terror! I have seen (and heard) him lash out at her when she is talking to others. (I guess he is upset over not being the center of attention...I don't really know for sure) My son on the other hand is even tempered, sweet, loveable, very "cuddly" but was (I readily admit) slow to speech. She tried to tell me my son was "retarded" at one point because she felt he should be talking more. (I spoke to an early education Dr. who told me to "Let the child alone, he is developing at his own rate! Let him be a child!")

My problem is this.....her last email informed me that her son is "gifted" and that she is being encouraged to enroll him in Kindergarten at age 4. During previous conversations she has "wished" for this to get him out of the house so she can "have a life again!" and when this was mentioned she then coments....."too bad YOURS will have to wait until he is 5....or will he be ready then?"

Right now, I am so upset over this last turn of events that I am sitting here crying. I KNOW my son is OK.....he is speacking more and more each day, he is energetic, eager to learn, very adapt at puzzles and such and most of all happy! He has met each and every developmental checkpoint But, I am upset! This woman does nothing but bring tension into my life with every bit of "news" about her son. I have begun to ignore my phone, letting voice mail get my messages and I find I even ignore her emails when they upset me!

What do I do? I am looking to you, the readers of this forum for some honest, straightforward advise. In reading other posts, I have been impressed with the honesty and straighforwardness.....and I need some now! Should I terminate this friendship for the sake of my health (I frequently have severe tension/stress headaches and I feel one coming on as I write this!) Or do I ignore her, and watch her "eat her words" as they were when her son proves to be nothing more than "average....Or do I do NOTHING?

Please reply to this post with some advise........I am at wits end!

Susan

jnbmoore · #2 07-26-2001, 05:25 PM

This is a friend? And how do you define friend?

I know my daughter is a genius

but I always look for other kid's gifts too!

At this age why pressure them to succeed? Personality is the most important.

I feel very very very very sorry for parents who dread having them around and want them gone to "get back their life" (then why did they have kids)

I have also never heard of recruiting for kindergarten. Who would "encourage" a four year old to go to kindergarten anyhow? (yes I realize school does start earlier in Cananda and Europe)

That said, have you checked into speech evaluation. Most school districts it can happen free. On my mommy list there were a few moms that were concerened and had the kids tested. The kids loved the test -- thought it was a game time. Adn the moms felt better. Most of the kids were in normal range but were given games (excersizes) to do at home to help improve more

GOOD LUCK

Bridgette

EDITTED TO SAY

I was half asleep when I responded. I read and thought you had meant that this person's comments were causing you some concern. I only suggested a speeech evaluation to give you peace of mind to expell any demons of doubt that this person put in your brain.

**conradd** · #3 07-26-2001, 05:27 PM

(((Susan)))

Sometimes, it's best just to realize that relationships change and move on. If she has to put down your son in order to build her son up in her own mind . . . it doesn't sound like she's much of a friend. Are there other reasons for the friendship?

Honestly, it sounds like her self worth is wrapped up in her child's accomplishments. How sad for both of them. Giftedness is often more of a curse than a blessing anyway, and for a mom like this, the label becomes more important than the child.

Some kids are early talkers, some are early walkers, but they all tend to even out at a later point. My son was speaking in sentences at 1, but he didn't crawl until he was 12 months and didn't walk until 16 months. My sister didn't start talking until she was almost 2 and she was identified as gifted. It doesn't matter. Kids are kids. A friend's child who was a late talker but an early walker has been a frequent guest in our home and I can't tell much of a difference. Shane's better at some things; Cody's better at others but they both are great kids.

Frankly, I'd rather have a sweet child who behaves well than an undisciplined monster. If she can't see past her desire to have a superchild, then I feel for the kid. It sounds like he's already got some problems. I agree with your doctor. Honestly, 15 years from now, it won't matter at all.

Motherhood is not a competition; children are not gamepieces. Get rid of your headaches. Distance yourself from this woman until she can act rationally. If that happens.

Deb
sorry to hear that this is so stressful; knowing that I'd react the same way

dancingpotato · #4 07-26-2001, 05:27 PM

Tell me this: did your son start walking before her son?

It's common that some walk before they talk, and some talk before they walk. (I am of the talk before walk category. My cousin Jillian who is about a year and a half, give or take a few months, started walking around at 8 months and talking (legibly) at over a year old.)

Walking/talking means nothing at all, except that fast walkers usually ahve more enrgy later in life. (This of course, coming from my limited knowledge on the subject.)

As far as I know, your "friend" is just (if I may say so) an idiot, and you shouldn't be bothered with her.

**amykhar** · #5 07-26-2001, 05:29 PM

Susan,
Unfortunately many mothers are like that. They need the accomplishments of their child in order to feel special. It's not enough for their child to be good, he must be better than other children around him.

I used to belong to a private Mommy board, and we had to remove a mother due to this kind of behavior. It was simply too upsetting for the group.

Personally, unless this is a truly special friend, I would just start to let the friendship lapse. Parents like this don't often change.

Amy

*emeleel* · #6 07-26-2001, 05:32 PM

Your friend is setting her kid up for a multitude of behavioral and emotional problems. (Sounds like it's already starting!) Pushing kids too early is detrimental to their health and mental well-being. Try Raymond Moore's "Better Late Than Early" if you can get it. I haven't been able to read it, but I do have his "Successful Family Homeschooling Handbook". Even if you don't believe in homeschooling (which is the focus of their work and books) the research about early formal schooling is eye-opening.

My son is very talented, too, and I would love to be able to provide special classes for him just for the fun of it and being able to expose him to new and interesting things. But I would never do it to try and push him, and certainly not to get him out of the house so I could "have my life back"!

BTW, I'd consider letting the "friendship" slide. I'd do what I could to avoid her as much as possible without being downright rude and finding new friends. With friends like her, who needs enemies!

nicholmere · #7 07-26-2001, 10:51 PM

Save yourself!

....."too bad YOURS will have to wait until he is 5....or will he be ready then?"

What a thoughtless and mean spirited thing to say. I've got a mother-in-law who makes similar callous remarks about the differences in her grandchildren. You can't dump a mother-in-law, but a friend like yours should be history.

Let the friendship slide.

If this is someone who was very important to you before your kids, then letting the communication slowly break off will allow you to more easily get back together should she ever wake up to the way she's treating you and your son.

If your paths never cross again then I doubt if you'll be any poorer for it.

#8 07-26-2001, 11:15 PM

Listen to your heart AND your son. Not all kids develop at the same rate. While one child my speak earlier than another, their development in other areas may be quite the opposite.

If someone tells you "Too bad you have to wait another year to get a life", tell the so-called friend, "It's too bad you won't have an extra year to play with your child."

If someone starts bragging about their child's progress, smile, congratulate THE CHILD on having accomplished so much, and then remember that your child is unique, special, and a joy all on his own. Then remark, very sweetly, "Yes, aren't ALL kids amazing! MY child knows how to behave!"

I'm kidding.... sorta.

Whatever you do, don't get caught up in the "my child is better than your child" game. There are never any winners, least of all the children.

mtbat · #9 07-27-2001, 12:08 AM

with friends like these-you don't need enemys-dump this woman and her child asap.

Your child sounds absolutly 100% normal and on target-and when this woman's son fails 1st or 2ed grade you will be vindicated-
4 years old is too young emotionally for a child-particularly one with such behavior problems to be starting school-and they will have nothing but problems with this child when he is in school.

you can just blow her off, you can tell her she is a stupid, ignorant b*tch that obviously doesn't care about her child or you can do what grace said-

no matter what you do-know that you are a great mom-your child is wonderful and this woman is messed up and you do not need her in your life-

DUMP HER

Workingmomof2 · #10 07-27-2001, 02:38 AM

Quote:

What do I do? I am looking to you, the readers of this forum for some honest, straightforward advise. In reading other posts, I have been impressed with the honesty and straighforwardness.....and I need some now! Should I terminate this friendship for the sake of my health (I frequently have severe tension/stress headaches and I feel one coming on as I write this!) Or do I ignore her, and watch her "eat her words" as they were when her son proves to be nothing more than "average....Or do I do NOTHING?

Oh Susan - this is so hard.
We were just discussing in another group the other day how it seems like 99% of the parents seem to think "their" child is gifted. Not to say that some kids aren't especially bright, of course, but some parents seem to have more need to make their children over-achieve. I agree with the comment above that this mother is setting her child up for a slew of future issues (and probably going to make some therapist very rich some day

)

In the meantime - I guess I would add my opinion, for what it's worth:
1) Evaluate the friendship. Is this a friend that you really enjoy, and want to spend time with? Would you truly miss her presence in her life if you were to terminate the friendship?
2) If this is a friendship you truly DO value, try to work it out. I would honestly recommend some type of gentle discussion with her - perhaps a comment like "I know that your son is exceptional, and I am really glad that you are so proud of him. I think he's a great little guy. I have to be honest with you, though... when you criticize my son, it hurts my feelings. I wish you wouldn't." (Remember the honest feedback rule: make it about YOU and YOUR feelings - state the "When you do XXX, I feel YYY ... I wish you wouldn't".
Be aware that this may hurt HER feelings, or she may feel that you are hyper-sensitive. If she is a TRUE friend, though, she will try to modify her behavior.....and if she does, you can thank her and also try to give gentle reminders (restate her comments that belittle YOUR son by focusing on the positive - as in "Yes it seems like he is very mechanically skilled. You must feel very proud.") Many times people need to have their feelings validated, and the issues that they yammer on are not really the issues at all -- she may just want someone to really LISTEN and by restating the comment (albeit omitting the criticism) it may nip the belittling part in the bud.
3) If this is not a relationship that you truly value, you might want to skip step 2. Unless this is a relationship you care deeply about, don't put up with the stress and emotional wear and tear of a "friend" who uses criticism or comparisons to validate herself and/or her child. Remember her statement about why she is putting her son in Kindergarten early -- she is trying to justify her need to get him out of the house (and out of her hair) by making him a super-child. Not to say he is or isn't ready - but it's not about the child, I don't think (armchair psychologist here). In any case unless you truly value the friendship, just fade out of her life....

Hugs hon. Hang in there....

Redlass · #11 07-27-2001, 03:51 PM

I'm so sorry. It's an awful choice to make--endure hurtful comments or suffer the loss of a friendship.

I'd have to agree with Amy--if the friendship means a lot, tell her how frustrating her company has been lately. Be gentle, but let her know that you're having serious doubts about the friendship because you are feeling so hurt. Perhaps she doesn't even realize she's doing it or how she sounds and would change if the behavior were pointed out to her in a respectful manner that allowed her to save face.

I'm a big subscriber to the multiple intelligences theory. I believe all children are gifted, it is simply a matter of finding out what each child's gift is and letting him or her thrive in that area--and not pushing him or her to be gifted in areas that are not their specialty. I think we waste a lot of talent by narrowing defining giftedness as giftedness in traditional academic areas only. The child gifted in reading and writing has as much value as the child gifted in kindness and generosity and as much value as the child gifted in art or singing. So her child is gifted academically--that's great. Your child is gifted in personality and (from what you mention) probably has a high degree of spatial intelligence (an area I have no intelligence in whatsoever--I can't do puzzles, hate LEGOS and struggle with Lincoln Logs).

You say your child is happy. In my (uneducated, non-medical, and inexperienced) opinion, that's the best indicator you'll ever get that you're doing the right things.

I'm sorry you have such stress with your friend, and hope you are able to either work it out or remove her from your life.

CANS4US · #12 07-27-2001, 05:14 PM

Wow! What can I say?........When I posted yesterday, I never dreamed I would find so many honest, heartfelt replies. I honestly cannot believe so many would care....and would offer advise. Thank you, everyone who has replied AND everyone who took time to read my post. After reading (and rereading) all the wonderful advise you have given I have decided that I need to step back from this friendship and do some serious thinking. There really is no reason to have a friendship that causes such pain (emotionally AND physically) as well as causing me to stess about my son.

jnbmoore: You are right "why pressure kids at this age to succeed?..........personality is most important!" You are SO right...my son is very personable and he makes friends wherever he goes! I am VERY proud of that!

conradd: I think it is time to "move on...." as you say. Sometimes I think I hold on to things (people?) from my past because I had such good times with them. This isn't one of them.....sadly enough!

dancingpotato: My son walked about the same time as hers but he is riding a trike AND a FP "kiddy" scooter. 2 things her son CANNOT do........and yes.....you MAY call her what you did.....right now, I agree! :-)

amykhar: you too are right....it is time to let the friendship "lapse". Too much time and too many tears have been spent needlessly lately! My son is more important than that!

emeleel: I will look into getting the books you mentioned. It is always helpful to find reading material that adresses problems! Thanks for suggesting the books!...and for your advise as well!

nicholmere: Now that you say it, she WAS thoughtless and mean spirited. I guess I was only feeling hurt...not really listening to what she was saying in terms of HER problems..........I survived for almost 20 years between the time college ended and the time we found each other again....I can survive without her friendship NOW!

gracef: yes...BOTH of my sons know how to "behave"...and I am very proud of them both! Too bad her son is the type, fellow travelers applaud when they see my friend and her son LEAVING the plane...........something that has happened OFTEN!

mtbat: I agree that 4 year olds are too young emotionally for Kindergarten..........one of my oldest son's friends is a genius (no lie!) but she is horribly immature......cries at the drop of a hat, throws tantrums....etc. I can see now that you mention it how my freinds son acts JUST like V.........it WILL be interesting to see how he is when he is in a "real" school settting!

WorkingMomof2: I don't spend much time at all with this friend...she lives 300 miles away and honestly, I have avoided person to person contact with her for months! The last time she, her hubby and son were at our home, her son was a BRAT! We couldn't wait for them to leave and now that you mention it, I have avoided contact with her since then. Guess that answers that, doesn't it!?!

Redlass: I have TRIED to tell her her comments are hurtful but she accuses me of "being jealous". She is hard to comunicate with whenyou disagree about her child and I have grown weary of her never ending comments and "brags" about his accomplishments! My son IS happy and you are right...."that is the best indicator that I am doing the right things!" Thanks!

and to all others who read (and may re-read):
Thank you for taking the time to listen. It means a lot to me to get good "old fashioned", non-biased advise. I think I know what to do now. It may be hard to do, but I know I have to do it. Right now, I am going to avoid her until I feel more in control of my emotions. THEN, I will finally decide whether to totally terminate the friendship or simply "put it on hold"....right now I am leaning towards TOTALLY cutting ties! I have stressed not only myself on this subect, but my family as well and that simply isn't fair! In fact, I am leaning so far towards termination that all I have to do is figure out the best way to terminate.........I think silence is the best..........Hubby says "it says EVERYTHING without saying ANYTHING!" Thanks again for listening and for taking the time to answer.......I have printed out your replies so I can refer to them if/when I ever feel this bad again! Again....Thanks!

Susan

timdunn · #13 07-27-2001, 08:23 PM

Susan,

Your friend has difficulties of her own to handle, ones that you cannot help. You should find a time to tell her that she needs her space and you need your's; that the friendship should be put in abeyance until both of you work out your respective personal issues.

Then run for the hills.

Your friend is either insecure and wants to know that someone is lower than her (bad) or otherwise has some need to control and belittle (worse). She sounds like the type to indulge and spoil her son by making him the perfect prince, entitled to all and responsible for naught.

Ask yourself this: do you want your son to be his friend? Your son will end up being his lackey or his equal in irresponsibility and distemper. Which is "bad" and which is "worse"? I care not to find out.

Oops - didn't see the closing post until too late, sorry. Hope this gets to you.

**slick4591**[$] · #14 07-27-2001, 09:15 PM

Quote:

I have been impressed with the honesty and straighforwardness.....and I need some now!

That I can do, little lady.

This person sounds like the type of mom that won't let her kid get muddy or eat dirt.

It also sounds like she is turning child raisin' into a competition. Excuse me, but when did raisin' kids turn into that?

She also sounds like the type of mom I get the to deal with when the kid starts counterfeiting with his computer and passing those $10.00 bills in the school cafeteria. Yep, you needs friends, but real ones. Not her! I'd tell her to blow it out her

. But that's just me.

CANS4US · #15 07-27-2001, 09:15 PM

Timdunn...and anyone else!

thanks again for the advise! Don't worry that you posted AFTER my last post! I will continue to read this as long as people feel they want to comment....after all, I asked for advise and I didn't give a time limit on givng it! Good advise is timeless, don't you know! :-)

I have received so much good advise...both from this post and from others........It seems that no matter WHO writes I find at least one bit of advise that I can relate to, hold onto and use. I appreciate any and all advise regarding this situation and I am thankful that so many have wanted to help. In a world so full of uncaring people, it is refreshing to find others who really care! THANKS!

Susan

Lisa_J · #16 07-28-2001, 03:09 AM

Susan,

First off, I am very sorry you have been subjected to this type of abuse! It is horrid to be treated in this manner especially by someone who should act as a friend.

Competition is not what you are looking for.

In working with numerous children, allow me to assure you that each develops different. Children are born with innate learning strengths. This will exhibit itself from birth forward. Although some develop speech sooner than others..... most hit benchmarks by a certain age.

Excellent Book:
Cynthia Tobias - The Way They Learn
Cynthia Tobias - How Your Child Learns and Succeeds
Cynthia Tobias - Every Child Can Succeed

Also, visit smarterkids.com and complete a questionaire. This is a very helpful site and will recommend wonderful products.

If you feel there is reason for concern with regard to your son, discuss the matter with your DR and local school. There are programs designed to help children be Kindergarten ready.

It would not suprise me at all if this persons child is not near the prodigy she assumes. It is not uncommon for parents to *think* their child is the smartest thing around, only to enter Kindergarten and discover they are *norm*.

Children develop skills at different ages. I operate an in-home day care/preschool and volunteer at the local school dist. My oldest has always exceeled with math/mazes/critical thinking - but lagged for a long time with writing and drawing (perfectionism disallowed her to take a risk). She exhibited gifted qualities at 3 and 4, I didn't push it. Kindergarten was a social adaption year. She has been fine. Writing caught up to speed and exceeded in the 4th grade.

My youngest exhibited gifted signs at 3 - again didn't push her.

I have seen too many parents push kids, the kid becomes set to aim to please, and literally misses out on social fun.

Susan, my guess is that your acquantance with this person needs to be halted. I would not hesitate to stop contact and let her know that her super imposed judgement on your son has gone too far. Period. Slam.

You are a kind person, it is more important that your child is loved, played with, enjoys life, and is lovingly encouraged than slammed into school early. In fact, even when academics allow entry GUESS WHAT???? These children often cave socially and emotionally. I don't support early entry, and wouldn't even be concerned sweetie!

Hugs and Love
Lisa
*who knows what the political crap is like*
submerge thyself around supporting friends not users like her

sgentile · #17 08-04-2001, 04:49 PM

Susan, I don't have time for a lengthy response or to read all the responses you have received thus far (My kids are both due up ANY minute from their naps).... but I do want to tell you that my daughter didn't say a WORD until she was about 20 months old. She was diagnosed as being "speech delayed" and we got (free) early childhood intervention (free speech therapy at my house 2ce a week). It's a national program, through "Birth-to-three."

Again, this was a free service and my daughter LOVED the attention. The speech therapist has become one of my closest friends too. My daughter will be 3 in November & she is almost caught up (using MANY 3-4 word sentences). Would she have reached this level on her own? Chances are good that she would have. Many kids are too busy focusing on other things (walking, building towers, doing puzzles) to care much about communication.

Your "friend" does not sound like a friend. If it won't be too painful, I say drop her (I had a "friend" like her too. Life's too short to be surrounded by people like that) & start meeting new mommy friends to hang out with. Libraries usually have free monthly groups. There are also many moms' clubs. Nice moms at playgrounds. I'd say you've outgrown that "friend".

I'd e happy to chat with you about speech delay... or the testing we did to determine it (and the things we did to encourage communication) if you want. You didn't say how old your little one is.... Try not to worry. I have an uncle who didn't talk until he was FOUR! (Einstein was 4 too).

Wow, guess I typed quickly... I managed to say quite a bit. (((( More hugs ))),

Susan

susangentile@ivillage.com

cristina1 · #18 08-06-2001, 05:15 AM

I am so sorry to hear you were treated in such an awful manner. And honestly, I would halt the friendship. Friends are supposed to be fun and caring, not stressful and rude.

As for delayed speech, my niece didnt utter her first words until after her second birthday. If you heard her talking now (at almost 5), you would never guess it. Her vocabulary actually has passed that of other children who began speaking earlier. Some kids are just late bloomers.

I feel sorry for your friend's child. It sounds like he is being set up for a major fall. It also sounds like she has to knock your child to justify her actions of pushing hers into school early. If she cant see that ALL children have special traits, then too bad for her.

CANS4US · #19 08-06-2001, 06:05 PM

...this is just to inform you that my ties (as of last night) have been severed with this so called "friend". She wrote another nasty email which basically rude and uncalled for. In it, she stated that HER son was "head and shoulders above my son...intelligence wise....and that I needed to DEAL WITH IT!" I replied by calling her and giving her a piece of my mind. I told her that what she had said about my son was "inexcusable and that I was THROUGH with her rude remarks and belittling of my son! That as far as I was concerned, she could live her life from now on WITHOUT me in it!" I was extremly angry and I went on to tell her "if you hadn't been so selfish and wrapped up in proving to yourself that your son was a GENIUS (her words not mine!) then you would have realized that my son is doing JUST FINE speech wise and is learning more words everyday!" I told her she has pushed people away her whole life.....her sister, her mother in law and now me.......I then asked her how many more people was she going to push out of her life before she realized people were getting tired of her cr*p.....and that she was all alone!

That's about all.......I've had another one of my headaches since the call and I must admit I've cried quite a few tears over it but somehow I feel better. thanks to all of you who have taken the time to read this (and previous) posts....your support helped give me the courage to say something I've wanted to say for a long time!

take care........and THANKS!

Susan

timdunn · #20 08-06-2001, 06:27 PM

Susan,

The headache will pass, and you can rest easier knowing that you won't get more of them. =)

timdunn

Workingmomof2 · #21 08-07-2001, 02:17 PM

Oh, I am so sorry you had to go through this. Take some aspirin, your headache will heal... and hopefully so will your heart.

Remember that you are the best judge of your child. Parents who belittle other people's children are not your friends.... I happen to agree with Bridgette, that every child has their own set of gifts. Some are easy to identify, others less so. Many don't show up until later in life. Some gifts relate to personality, some to temperment, some to physical skills, some to mental abilities.... but goodness, can you imagine if we were all judged by how we compared to each other at age five????

For what it's worth, my son was another late talker too. He only said a few words - like ma, da and ba (which could mean ball, bowl, bottle, it was always a question what the heck it meant) and NO -- (we heard NO a lot LOL) - and this was at about age two. We had a few well-meaning folks tell me I needed to get him into speech therapy, etc. as soon as possible. Even my doctor was a little concerned, and said if he wasn't talking in 6 months she wanted him evaluated (she did check his ears, though, as that's a common culprit I guess).

Guess what? Shortly after he turned two he started talking -- in full sentences. Well, phrases at least, 3-5 words at a time. Turns out his method of learning is to listen and observe for a long time THEN join in. He is six and he still does this -- in a group setting like swimming lessons, soccer camp, etc. he always hangs back until he gets comfortable, THEN joins in. And he's incredibly verbal, and physically coordinated -- it's just how he incorporates new information.

I really struggle with people who categorize kids this early -- our neighbor's son is 6 months younger than my son. He was talking CLEARLY and intelligently at about 15 months, and in sentences by about 18 months (yes, before my son... imagine my chagrin....) He is also about 8" taller and about 15 lbs heavier, runs faster, is more coordinated on a bicycle, etc. He's a great kid.... and I would tear my hair out if I tried to understand or compare all the differences between our two sons. I know that