Kids that just don't quite fit in

[amykhar]

It will probably come as no shock to you, but I was one of the kids in school that is dumped on by everyone. I have read many epinions by many of you that state that you had the same issues as kids.

Now, the tables are turned, and I have one child who isn't the most socially adept. When I was a kid, I my parents used to tell me the other kids were jealous that I was smart, but I think I understood even then that it couldn't be something wrong with every kid in the world - something had to be wrong with ME.

When I became an adult, I finally started to fit in. Some places better than others. I don't do well at parties or large group activities. I also don't "get" people (and this is going to sound snobbish, but I don't mean it that way) below a certain intelligence. It's not that I think I am better than them, I just can't THINK like they do and have nothing to talk about with them.

So, how does a parent help a child like I was fit in? Especially a parent like me who really doesn't understand the social dynamics of kids at all?

I do make a point to tell my one socially inept child to hang loose, that things improve in college. By the time you hit college, people are a bit more civilized and will not rip your entire ego to shreds just for the hell of it like they will in high school. Honestly, I worry about my one child because I remember how many times I contemplated suicide as a kid. If I had known then that life would be fine now, maybe it would have made life more bearable.

I am not sure that I CAN teach my child how to relate to peers. It might be that coming of age is the only answer. But, I would like to try.

Are any of you dealing with very shy kids, or geeky kids? How do you help them cope?

I do make a point to try to teach my more socially capable child not to torment the obvious misfits at school. Hopefully, I am teaching my kids to be humane and compassionate - at least in their hearts. I fully understand that peer pressure makes tormenting the weirdos mighty attractive.

Amy

[Redlass]

You bring up an insightful point, Amy. I think what will scare me most about having a teenager is remembering how often I thought about suicide when I was that age.

My parents didn't believe me the times I told them that I was thinking about suicide. It was only later after some pretty dramatic events in our life that they took it seriously and my dad tried to talk to me about it. He explained that our perspectives change and that as a teenager, everything seems bigger, more earth-shattering, and more immediate than it will later in life. He tried to explain that if a teenager can just hang on, things will get better.

There are advantages to being socially inept. The peer pressure isn't as great. There's less of a pressure to drink, do drugs, or smoke because you're already on the outside of that crowd and smart kids realize that not only will taking up those behaviors not get them "in" with the people that do, but it will alienate them from the few friends they do have.

Perhaps encouraging a few close friendships and involvement in activities involving other people of like interests.

Perhaps encouraging teens to forgive themselves for the socially inept things they do. If they can let go of the mistakes and plan to start each new day out with a new slate, it gets easier.

Perhaps somehow convincing them that everyone else--even the most popular and confident child in their class--has similar insecurities, discomforts, and anxieties.

I don't know how much any of that knowledge would have helped me though, to be honest.

[frazzledspice]

I think the question that everyone, child or adult, has to answer is how much of yourself you are willing to give up in order to fit in.

My daughter, age 12, has had the misfortune to have moved long distances four times since the end of first grade. In addition, she is shy.

In our last move, she has sometimes talked about "the popular kids" and how "the popular kids" do this or say that. "Who are these popular kids popular with? Do you like them?" I'd ask. "No," she'd answer. "Well, then," I'd tell her, "you are popular with some people, and your friends are popular with some people. There aren't popular kids and un-popular kids. Everyone is popular with somebody."

She just started junior high. I was dying a thousand deaths. Her best friend moved and her other best friend had transferred to public school. She was going in practically cold, starting all over again.

My neighbor's daughter, who is a year older, introduced her to some of her friends. She is now in the same crowd as my neighbor's daughter. She met a good friend in seventh grade, too, who is also friendly with these girls.

She is coming home from school excited and enthusiastic, and I am happy she seems to have made friends who are good people.

About the only reason she would like to be a part of the "popular crowd" is to attract the boy she likes, who is the seventh grade quarterback. And actually, he does seem to like her--and I hope it stops at that.

She is very pretty. Going out with the seventh grade quarterback would probably land her in the "A List Popular Crowd." But I really don't want her going out with anyone at the moment, and I think that the friends she has are probably better for her than the little debutantes in the popular crowd.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

I was also one of those kids. I don't have kids myself, so I can't talk about it from that angle, but I'm trying to think of things that I know now that I didn't know when I was a kid that would have helped me at the time.

Some random thoughts:

-- It's real clear to me now that lots of kids were going through what I was going through, but I didn't know that then. I felt like I was the only one in the whole world. I think it would have helped a lot if I found other kids who were going through the same kinds of things and we could have talked to each other about how it felt. I wonder if the internet would help? It seems like there are groups for everything; there must be groups for geeky kids. Also, some of it may be just learning to keep one's eyes open -- I was so stuck in this image of myself as the most miserable person in the world that a whole bunch of people who felt exactly as I did could paraded right in front of me and I never would have noticed.

-- I wish I had known more about how emotions, especially depression, worked -- that when I was picked on, I went into a rage (something I had no clue about until much later in life), but being the weak person in the group, I couldn't express that as anger, so it got turned inward into self loathing and depression. Just understanding what's going on internally I think is a big help. There's a book that I think is very good, Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman. He talks a lot in there about teaching kids about their emotions, starting off just by identifying what they are -- you can't do anything about your emotions until you can put names on them -- and then going on from there. I don't know if it would be too complicated for a 12-year old, but it could be a good thing to read yourself and discuss with her.

-- I don't know how to say this without sounding Pollyanna-ish, but I wish I had known to look more for the positive. I think I was so locked into the "everybody hates me think I'm going to go eat worms" thing that when somebody did do something nice or friendly, I think I barely noticed.

[jenninca]

I was another one of those kids that was picked on. This was mostly in seventh grade and some in fifth/sixth. The best thing that helped me through the tough times, especially in seventh grade, was having my mother willing to talk through everything with me every day. She would mostly just listen, and occasionally offer a little advice. I don't think I was looking for advice so much as a friendly ear. I also talked to my cat a lot.

Another thing that helped was one particular teacher. I guess she got sick of seeing the other girls pick on me (this was in choir), so she referred the main girl and I to the counselor. The counselor, who I love to this day, had each of us tell what our problems with each other were. The only thing the other girl could think of to say was that she didn't like it when I sat at her lunch table. After that, she pretty much stopped picking on me because she didn't want to be referred back again. The others eventually kind of picked up on that.

So that's something I could suggest. Call the school's counselor and see if she/he can work with your child and the main problem-maker on finding out what their "issues" are. Or see if the teacher can make a referral, if you're afraid that your child might be perceived as a tattletale by the other child.

But the thing I think would help the most would be a willing and available ear to listen but not judge.

Cindy

[AuntieEmma[$]]

Also, we're living in a real revenge of the nerds era -- just look at Bill Gates. (Ok, maybe a bad example.) But, really, people who were popular in high school often burn out early -- good looks fade quickly, althletic ability also goes, and some people spend their entire lives trying to recapture their glory days in high school, without sucess. Meanwhile, the things that nerds learn while sitting alone with their heads buried in books will last a lifetime.

Also, being unpopular in high school seems to motivate some people to make up for it by being super achievers later. Movie stars are always saying in interviews that they were ugly and gawky and unpopular. (Not that I always believe them -- kind of like rappers are always claiming they were little criminals, even when they led perfectly placid lives in the suburbs. But still. At least it's considered a romantic thing to be able to claim.)

Actually, I don't know if this kind of stuff would have made me feel better when I was a kid, but it's kind of fun to think about it now.

[Workingmomof2]

Well how is that all of us nerds ended up HERE anyway? LOL

I was a total geek in junior high and high school. My kids, who are both adorable in MY eyes have all the future signs to go either way - happy and accepted, or shy and geeky. Only time will tell.

My advice is this -- reinforce all the great things about your kids. Amy if your daughter excels in certain areas, underscore to her how unusual and exceptional it is that she is strong in those areas. Increase her confidence, and keep up with positive praise. One of the things that always intrigued me as a geeky high-schooler was that some kids were geeks and didn't really care, and others were always dying to get into the "in" group. The only difference I can pin it on is their own level of self-confidence.

I, by the way, was one who was always dying to be "cool" but never quite got there. Amazingly, I had more friends than I ever realized - because I worked fulltime, with a lot of the "stoners", I was friends with that whole group even though I had never touched alcohol or drugs. They called me Polly Purebred I was in clubs with the geeks (the "brains") where I probalby fit the best, and in ASB and pep squad with the jocks and cheerleaders, in a youth group with a cross-section, and in the end had crossover friendships with almost every group. And yet I never felt I fit in.... never felt "cool".... never felt good about myself.

So for what it's worth - help your daughter to value herself. Talk to her about what it's like to be in high school, where even those seemingly perfect girls would talk in the bathrooms and you realized that every single one of them had doubts about themselves, things they wished they could change about themselves, etc. And how in the long run, the ones who were the happiest are the ones who like themselves, not necessarily for what they look like, but for who they are.

That's my wisdom for today...

[CANS4US]

Amy.....
I have been sitting at home today feeling sorry for my son.....he is 8, and up until a year or so ago, was VERY popular with the kids in the neighborhood. He has always had plenty of friends at school, and that is still true, with him calling at least a dozen kids "buddy". Now, the only thing that has changed in our neighborhood in the past year is that a woman (I'll call her PSYCHO WOMAN) has decided to turn the kids against my son. The kids leading this change are 2 6th grade girls and a 5th grade boy. All are kids whose parents don't give a riip one way or another as to where they are or when they come home. They are basic losers....but try to tell that to a child who has noone but his Mom to roller blade with. :-(

The reason I write this is not to cry my woes......though I feel better having written this down....but to tell you that we in the midwest have the self same problems....but to tell you you're not alone! I too, was belittled as a child and I went out into the world to acquire a BA, MFA and a teaching certification. Unlike my "bully" friends from my youth, I have traveled extensively in Europe and have even spent 3 weeks studying in Greece. I married late in life.....having found happiness in my solitude......and since have had 2 beautiful, bright boys.

I wish you lived closer......our children could meet and share "war stories" but since that is not possible, help your son to recognize HIS positive points and be his support. Help him to develop hobbies and likes that are HIS no one elses and above all remember this........my husband states this often and since I think it is brillant, I will share it with you! "The other kids may NEVER want A as their best friend....that's OK.......we will ALWAYS support him and always be there for him. I always want him to know that those kids will come and go but WE will be there always.....because we love him. We will always be the best friends he will ever have!"

I hope this has helped.......if you want, email me.....if not, that's OK too! I hope things work out for you and your son!

Susan

[jgibson2[$]]

My oldest son was one of those who just didn't fit in for the longest time. Elementary school was hell for him and if I'd realized I could do it sooner, I'd have pulled him out and homeschooled him about third grade. Oh I'm not talking about sheltering him. We kept him in plenty of activities -- but he got to pick his peer group in most of them. He went back to school for high school -- mixed reviews on that.

There were exceptions - band was a good option through elementary, but a disaster in high school. The teacher failed to maintain control and the older kids really came down on some of the younger ones. He opted out after one year.

He stayed in Boy Scouts through his first year in college (as an assistant scoutmaster). He had a really kick-butt scoutmaster who simply didn't tolerate kids picking on each other. He made them work out their problems. As far as I know, he only had to ask one kid to leave the troop -- one who insisted on picking on everyone else, then whining that he was a victim. It didn't fly with the scoutmaster and he was invited to leave.

He put in an appearance when my son was in a vo-tech class in high school. I gave some thought to warning the school, but I didn't want to poison the well. When things got bad, the teacher told me he'd have appreciated a warning. I thought he handled it just fine, though and there was only the one incident.

Karate was probably the real life-saver for Rob, though. I mean that literally. It gave him confidence and helped him to realize he was a competent person. You don't get picked on in a good Karate class either - at least not much and you get a chance to get even when it's time to spar. The karate came in really handy when he was assaulted in the cafeteria in high school. He didn't seriously injure his assailant, but he did acquire a reputation and people walked carefully around him in the hallway after that.

The next year he got permission to form a club to play various role-playing games. The kids who joined ranged from geeks to freaks, and they're nearly all still playing 4 years later. Some only put in an appearance when they're home from college on weekends, but they stay in touch. The teacher who agreed to sponsor them earned my undying gratitude.