Shall hate tear us apart?

[drmomentum[$]]

As I was typing in the story about my mother being faced with anti-arab bigotry last night, there were sirens as emergency response vehicles passed my house. This is what was going on down the street:

http://www.projo.com/cgi-bin/story.pl/news/06165632.htm

"I want get to those Arabs for what they did to us," is the quote taken by an arresting officer. The victim was of Indian descent. it's lucky no one was hurt. Way to go, bigots.

They are going to be charged with a hate crime. Should Arab-Americans gather and cheer at their trial, like the people who cheered when the turbaned man was taken into custody - a man who also was not connected to the terrorist acts? Got to keep the hate going, right?

Of course, Fox is doing a good job of that on its own. How many times have i seen the Palestinians cheering on Fox? Has Fox worked to find out who these people are, whether they are a majority of Arabs, or done anything to shed a reasonable light of context around this videotape? Not that I can see. Yet they run it over and over.

Does anyone else here have a problem with where this is headed?

-JP

[erik_kosberg]

This is a test of us as Americans. Do we stoop to jingoistic bigotry or gain strength from all that is good about our nation? It’s too early to tell, but I hope that it’s the latter rather than the former.

[realtraveller]

I absolutely agree that we should not stoop to mindless hate of all Arab-Americans.

But, be honest, wouldn't you feel justifiably nervous if you boarded a flight in the next few days and a group of Arab speaking men got on your flight?

[erik_kosberg]

Someone might be unjustifiably nervous, but not justifiably nervous. Call me wacky, but I’d rather sit next to an Arab than a bigot.

But, be honest, wouldn't you feel justifiably nervous if you boarded a flight in the next few days and a group of Arab speaking men got on your flight?

[tipu]

Originally posted by realtraveller
But, be honest, wouldn't you feel justifiably nervous if you boarded a flight in the next few days and a group of Arab speaking men got on your flight?

:soapbox:

I would feel justifiably nervous if I were an Arab in America in the next few days. Even more so if I happened to be a Muslim.



I like the new graemlin... nice job to whoever made it...

[wivabef]

Originally posted by erik_kosberg
Someone might be unjustifiably nervous, but not justifiably nervous. Call me wacky, but I’d rather sit next to an Arab than a bigot.

But would you sit next to an Arab bigot?

I know that anybody getting on a plane, would look at the bigot, the Arab and the Arab bigot as potential seat mates as opposed to me -- a very large mom with a small screaming child.

[wivabef]

Originally posted by drmomentum
As I was typing in the story about my mother being faced with anti-arab bigotry last night, there were sirens as emergency response vehicles passed my house. This is what was going on down the street:

http://www.projo.com/cgi-bin/story.pl/news/06165632.htm

"I want get to those Arabs for what they did to us," is the quote taken by an arresting officer. The victim was of Indian descent. it's lucky no one was hurt. Way to go, bigots.

They are going to be charged with a hate crime. Should Arab-Americans gather and cheer at their trial, like the people who cheered when the turbaned man was taken into custody - a man who also was not connected to the terrorist acts? Got to keep the hate going, right?

Of course, Fox is doing a good job of that on its own. How many times have i seen the Palestinians cheering on Fox? Has Fox worked to find out who these people are, whether they are a majority of Arabs, or done anything to shed a reasonable light of context around this videotape? Not that I can see. Yet they run it over and over.

Does anyone else here have a problem with where this is headed?

-JP

Yes, I have a problem with it. I am horrified by what is going on with your Mom and a man who is not even Arab.

I am, however, glad to hear that people are quick to respond to stop it -- or at least, so it seems.

I never watch Fox News. That would be like watching The Weekly World News on television. Somewhere between Taliban taunting and yellow ribbon tying would be goatboy sitings.

I hope the teenagers do get tried for a hate crime. There is no excuse for this.

I noticed the cheapest price of gas in town was our lebanese friend's place. I hope it's 1.39 (as opposed to 1.43 at his two competing stations -- and he's full serve!) because he's in competition and not because he is lacking business because of his cultural origin. His American flag is at half mast, too. I hope our townspeople are kinder, gentler than those suburban Boston boys.

[whatever22]

I think Americans need to learn the difference between fellow Americans of different races living in this country and anti-Americans of the same race in other countries.

I think we all need to learn to love each other, first of all. Everything happens for a reason. If this isn't a calling from <insert diety of choice> to be more loving, forgiving, accepting, and enlightened, I don't know what is.

Besides, we don't have all of the facts yet. My hunch on this? bin Laden doesn't have the resources to pull this off. But Saddam does. They were in this together. A friend of mine is a professional astrologer and predicted this would happen 8 years ago when she covered the first bombing for Dell Horoscopes. She contacted the FBI back then and they laughed at her. Who's laughing now?

Anyway, my point is, everything is pure speculation at this point. We need to focus on those that are hurting and grieving, and send our love and support. Karma is a bitch and the culprit will get theirs even if we do nothing.

I for one think all Arab-Americans are wonderful people. At least where I live. They are very kind and generous. They are always kind, fair, giving, and the ones who operate stores hook us up with free things. There is no reason to hate or even dislike these people. They are human like the rest of us and deserve our love and respect.

[realtraveller]

According to MSNBC, senior officials are saying that there may be as many as 50 additional terrorists involved in this plot at large in the U. S.

We can't let politically correct Pollyannaism blind us to reality.

Of course, American citizens of Arab descent or origin should not feel discriminated against. But I certainly hope that our security checkpoints at airports are being especially vigilant about people holding passports from the nations that support terrorists.

[realtraveller]

By the way, I think your concern is directed in entirely the wrong direction. A few taunts or broken windows in mosques is nothing compared to the hate that these terrorists directed against innocent people, snuffing out their lives. Tens of thousands of people's lives simply are incomparable to a few isolated hateful acts against Muslims.

Hate has already torn us apart. The hate of fundamentalist Muslims for everything American, our freedoms, the freedom that women have in this country, our prosperity. That is the hate that we should be primarily concerned with now. That hate is what may be leading us into World War III.

[patach]

A few taunts or broken windows in mosques is nothing compared to the hate that these terrorists directed against innocent people, snuffing out their lives.

I don't think it would feel at all good if somebody you don't know beat you up or screamed at you to go back to your own country because they think you have something to do with a mass murder.

Could this be ONE factor that the terrorists try to accomplish? Making one American go against another blindly because of racial background? Hey, it happened last time when the Japanese attacked us in Pearl Harbor. We rounded up the Japanese Americans and put them in internment camps. Of course, "hey, it could've been worse, at least we didn't kill them..." right?

I don't think more innocent people should suffer from this.

Weirdly, all this talk is starting to remind me about the movie "Undersiege", where they rounded up all the Arabs because of terrorist attacks in New York.

[realtraveller]

Of course, I don't think the taunts and window breaking is justified or right. My point was that the sentiment and direction of this entire thread is turned in the wrong direction. Everyone's concern should instead be focused on the hate that brought down two 110 story buildings and the Pentagon and killed thousands of people. We could have lost the White House and the Capitol because of the anti-American hate. This other stuff is very, very minor in comparison.

[AmyLEnsor]

Originally posted by tipu
I would feel justifiably nervous if I were an Arab in America in the next few days. Even more so if I happened to be a Muslim.

At least you would know to be on your guard. You're giving these hate mongers a lot of credit. It's bad enough that people are angry and acting out on it, but these people can't tell the difference between muslim-Arabs, non-muslim Arabs, and non-Arab people with darker skin, nor do they care to. Would I feel nervous if I got on a plane and saw that my seat mate was of Vietnamese descent? Apparently some people would. If it sounds as if I am condoning fear or hatred of Muslim Arabs, I'm not, but it bothers me that this is ballooning out to encompass other groups and religions so quickly. Some people hide their bigotry and are all too willing to show it in a violent manner in certain circumstances, and they are the type who could become terrorists themselves. Heck, they are already engaging in terrorist activities, just on a much smaller scale. Maybe they won't escalate it to something greater such as the people, but I wouldn't be willing to bet my life on it. If more people condoned their violent behavior, I could quickly see these teens leading lynch mobs and killing anyone they didn't think was "American" enough.

[frazzledspice]

As recently as WWII, Japanese Americans were interned because of government fears that they might be sympathetic/working for the enemy.

It's very important that we never give into those prejudices again, by profiling people or harassing people based on their nationalities or race.

When people feel powerless and angry, some will always try to find a scapegoat, but it's much better to channel those feelings into positive energy.

Giving blood. Donating to the Red Cross. Hugging and reassuring your family members. Gathering together with your faith community to pray.

[Dani257]

Originally posted by realtraveller
My point was that the sentiment and direction of this entire thread is turned in the wrong direction. Everyone's concern should instead be focused on the hate that brought down two 110 story buildings and the Pentagon and killed thousands of people. .

People's concern is there, but I have to say something that will sound horrible and callous. It's been done. We can do whatever we can to help out in the aftermath, but we can't change it. We CAN guard against feelings of prejudice against innocent people of Arab descent and people who just 'look' Arab. Hoping that these people aren't attacked isn't the least bit disloyal to those that died (I'm not saying you said it was). I'd say it is ENTIRELY right and patriotic. We wish we could have protected all those innocent Americans. Well, there is another group of AMERICANS who may be in danger. It might just be broken windows now, but who knows if it will escalate? And, I really don't make distinctions in the numbers. If one innocent Arab-American died, I'd feel just as bad. Human life is precious, regardless of a quota.

Edited to add that no one is ignoring what has happened or the victims. There are threads dealing with the attack.

[wickedgood]

Of course, I don't think the taunts and window breaking is justified or right. My point was that the sentiment and direction of this entire thread is turned in the wrong direction. Everyone's concern should instead be focused on the hate that brought down two 110 story buildings and the Pentagon and killed thousands of people. We could have lost the White House and the Capitol because of the anti-American hate. This other stuff is very, very minor in comparison.

Hate never did anything for anyone. There are stories now and have been stories in the past of people being (at least) harrassed because of their type or ethnic origin. Several of these stories include a law enforcement break down ie: heads being turned when incidents happen because of sympathies toward the harrassers.

When people do wrong to people (with small or large crimes) it should be focused on. Should the victims of smaller crimes remain silent just because the attacker was emotional and angry? Let's not pay attention to the smaller crimes because the reason behind them was a big crime? Two wrongs don't make it right. As average citizens we can not do much about the big crime here. We can do something about smaller stuff...

at least behave in a civilized fashion (if you can't do loving) toward your countrymen.

call out when you witness bigotry and do not accept it as, "the way people are."

teach tolerence to your children to break the cycle.

The reason spouse and child abuse happens is because someone feels the need to take out their aggressions on another weaker person. Is this any different?

[Trebor1415]

As much as a hate it, racism and the hate and fear of "the other" are part of the American psyche. Not the best part, not even part of the overwhelming majority, but a part that is there and has to be recognized, especially when events occur that can flame that hate and fear into violent actions.

The problem is separating that racism and hate from the legitimate security concerns. When the racism becomes parts of official government policy the results include things like the mass round up of Japanese Americans in the U.S. concentration camps in WWII. I'm against racial profiling, because of the documented abuses that have occured in the name of security, but right now I'm sure anyone of Arab descent who trys to fly anywhere in the country is going to be put under close scrutiny. And, to be honest, I don't think that extra scrutiny would be unjustified, I just don't want to see any governmental abuses in addition to the invidual acts or mob violence that has already occured.

Rob

[realtraveller]

Going back to justifiable nervousness at Arab men boarding planes. 3 Arab men were just arrested by the FBI boarding a plane at JFK with fake pilot certificates. The FBI source to MSNBC believed that this may have been an attempt to bring down another plane. It was a United flight bound for L.A. New York's airports have been closed as a result.

There are still terrorists involved in the plot out there. It may not be over, contrary to some opinions expressed in this thread.

[hadassahchana[$]]

By the way, I think your concern is directed in entirely the wrong direction. A few taunts or broken windows in mosques is nothing compared to the hate that these terrorists directed against innocent people, snuffing out their lives. Tens of thousands of people's lives simply are incomparable to a few isolated hateful acts against Muslims.

Hate has already torn us apart. The hate of fundamentalist Muslims for everything American, our freedoms, the freedom that women have in this country, our prosperity. That is the hate that we should be primarily concerned with now. That hate is what may be leading us into World War III.

I am nearly at a loss for words after reading that post.

A "few taunts" is unbearably painful. I am an Orthodox Jew, and my children and I are easily identifiable as such. We have had many instances of things like this. My second child was badly beaten when he was 4, by a Lebonese kid who was 9. He was beaten due to senseless hatred of one ethnic group for another. Our house has had numerous windows smashed, rocks thrown at it, there are days when my children cannot safely play outside if something has upset the local Arab population. This makes it difficult but not impossible to teach my children that we don't hate groups, we get angry with specific people who do wrong. I have been so proud of their responses to this whole crisis- they instantly understood that people expressing anti-Arab sentiments were being terribly dangerous and hurtful.

However, I am not calling names- far from it. Instead, I am going to stand up and yell at the top of my lungs,"Racism hurts everyone!" A "few broken windows" in mosques harms me irreperably, even if I am not directly involved. Anything which causes institutional hatred and racism diminishes all of us. It was hatred which killed the people in New York and Washington, not Islam.

When you speak of fundamentalist Muslims, I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you are saying. I know many, many fundamentalist Muslims, all of whom are peace-loving, G-d fearing people. They want to be able to work, feed their children, and spend time with their families at the end of the day, just as you and I do. Fundamentalist religion doesn't cause planes to crash into buildings. Hating a group of people, disregarding every person's humanity, does. Blaming Islam, blaming Arabs, blaming fundamentalist Muslims is every bit as bad as the mindset of those who hijacked that plane and killed the innocent people. There is no difference between hating someone because he is Muslim, and hating someone because he is an American.

When you claim that Muslims hate us for our prosperity, that is nonsense, as many of the Arab countries are actually much more prosperous than the US. As for hating our freedom, if everyone starts reacting this way, it won't be a problem, because none of us will have any freedom any longer. Allowing the terrorists to make us blindly hate is the final victory- and one which each one of us is responsible for ensuring isn't easily won.

Cindy

[realtraveller]

I must not be making my point very well. Of course, racism in all its forms is bad. Its just that I am far more concerned about people who would KILL innocent people than I am about the other stuff.

There is simply no moral equivalence between MASS MURDER and hateful words. There is no justification for what happened Tuesday in New York and Washington. These terrorists are pure evil and no amount of grievances on their part can justify it.

Right now my heart and soul are with the people lying under mountains of concrete and with the heroes who are trying to rescue them.

[hadassahchana[$]]

There is simply no moral equivalence between MASS MURDER and hateful words.

Words spoken in hatred, words used to convince others of the moraltiy of hating are what lead directly to mass murder. Far from having no connection, there is no other cause.

Cindy

[realtraveller]

I didn't say there was no connection. I said that on the scales of evil, one is far, far more evil than the other. One (speech even if hateful) is constitutionally protected, the other leads to the death penalty.

Right now, people's and this country's hearts, souls and minds should be focused on the victims of the murder.

[slick4591[$]]

Maybe I missed it, but when McVeigh killed so many at Oklahoma City I didn't see the rush (by any race) to kill off the white folk.

Damn! What am I doing in here again. Gotta go.