Who'll Ride Shuttle Flights With New Airline Security in Place?

[frazzledspice]

I've always wondered why people would fly from, let's say, St. Louis to Chicago, when you could drive there in 5 hours.

Of course, most of my traveling is with family, and saving several airfares and having my own car upon arriving tilts the balance in favor of driving.

But with new airline security measures, traveling from, let's say, St. Louis to Chicago would probably take as long or longer than driving. After all, you have to get to the airport, go through the security checks (arriving earlier), get on the flight, arrive at the airport, rent a car or go on the MTA, etc.

My own personal threshold for making the fly v.s. drive decision used to be 500 miles. Now I think I might up that to 700. What's yours, and do you think that shuttle flights will go out of business?

[erik_kosberg]

Most shuttle flights are filled with people on business for whom time is a lot more important than distance per se. Those who need to go from Point A to Point B in a short amount of time will still fly, but videoconferencing may suddenly look a lot more attractive to many business travelers.

[realtraveller]

I don't think passengers on shuttle flights need to be worried. The terrorists were looking for planes with enough fuel on board to create a fireball that would melt steel. That's why they chose transcontinental flights and crashed them shortly after take-off.

But there is no doubt that the airlines are going to have extreme financial difficulties after all this. The liability lawsuits against United and American alone by the families of the passengers and the families of the victims on the ground could force them into Chapter 11.

[Redlass]

I think Fraz's point, though, is that shuttle flights will no longer save time.

I can drive to Chicago from Lansing in 4.5 hours. If I have to spend 2 hours going through security, one hour in the air, and another hour getting baggage, well, I might as well drive. It's not fear, it's practicality and saving time.

[jgibson2[$]]

I expect that the airlines will find some way to fast-track shuttle flights. It's the only thing that would make any sense at all. They could do that by having them depart from separate gates than the transcontinental and international flights. They are going to have to increase the number of security personnel and improve the training and pay for them anyway. The costs will increase, but they'll keep the shuttle flights going.

By the way, my husband has always taken the train from Baltimore to NY rather than the shuttle flights because it was faster. Lots of people do. The really short-hop shuttle flights in areas also served by Amtrak may not fare so well.

[vein]

My father used to often fly out of GSP (Greenville, SC) on the 6.10 Northwest flight, land in Detroit at 8, be picked up for a meeting by someone on the way to either the meeting at X company or the local offices he worked for. Then, either I'd drop him off at the airport 30 minutes before his 5.30 flight back or someone from his company would if the meetings lasted too long. He'd then be back in SC by 7.30, ready for dinner.

Take in mind, the same trip takes about 12 hours by car, and much longer without the direct flight.

However, I think companies will try either train more people for such meeting critical positions or they'll go to more extreme measures - company plane out of small airport, more company cars, etc etc. With the new measures, for my Dad's example, to get there on time he'd have to fly out the night before, be put up in a hotel, then fly out the evening after the meeting - costing the company a lot more in meals and hotel expenses than a day trip.

I think less pleasure travellers will fly short distances than before, however, the business traveller and long distance pleasure traveller (especially on FF miles) will still be taking those short hop flights, and I believe those groups of people will still make them profitable for airlines to complete.

After all, if I'm on my way from Detroit to Boston via Delta, I'm not going to just take the longer Detroit-NY flight then drive to Boston, I'm going to get on the "express" flight from NY-Boston, my destination.

[nfp]

I'm due to fly out of LAX to SFO this afternoon on a United Shuttle. I'm less concerned about the flight than I am about getting in to the airport, parking, etc. I'm allowing 3 hours, and there's talk that might not be enough. In which case I'll bag it, see what it looks like next week, or else consider the seven hour drive next time.

The new world order. Would I fly with sky marshals? Sure.

nick

[BobMc]

Howdy Frazz,

I'd like to think that people would rely on the same factors as before. I remain steadfast that my logistical concerns will outweigh any concern over terrorism.

To allow these animals to alter my life in any other way already demonstrated is to appease their efforts.

Yes, people died. But, people must carry on. We must continue our normal lives, if we surrender to our fears it signifies a victory to those who wish to do us wrong.

These were four flights on a day which I would imagine has thousands. Statistically I'd bet its still safer to fly than drive.

BobMc

[roymeo]

I dunno.

I sorta assumed that the "tightened securtiy" would last as long as the glut of blood donors. Sure, it might be an inconvenience for a couple of months, but come January, you'll still be surpirsed at what you can walk through security with.

Or maybe I'm just glib because I'm sick of having to wait for Pookie to finish with her Flying While Black extended search.

roymeo

[frazzledspice]

I was talking about time and convenience, basically.

A 500 mile flight is probably about a 1 hour 15 minute flight on a jet. But getting to the airport takes 1/2 hour. Arriving two hours earlier brings the total to 3 1/2 hours. Picking up luggage and renting a car might add another hour to the total. Driving to your final destination might take another 1/2 hour, bringing the total to about five hours.

Driving would take about 9 hours. It would still be longer, but, especially if you were traveling with others (family, perhaps), it would be much cheaper.

I live by a small airport, and can't go anywhere without stopping in Dallas. For me, even a 750 mile trip might be easier if I drive.

[AmyLEnsor]

The only flying I do at this point is from California to Virginia and back again. If I want to see my family, I'll still keep doing that because driving just wouldn't be a possibility. In the past we've talked about flying to some place like Reno or Lake Tahoe as opposed to driving, but at this point I think I'd just drive.

[Joubert[$]]

I want my shuttle back and I want my airport open again.

Many of our folks travel and are reporting today that the extra time is amounting to 30 minutes or so.

I think one point to remember is that airlines have always suggested arriving an hour early. When I know my departure gate, I've been known to arrive 15-20 minutes beforehand. Why? The same reason I fly from DC to Atlanta and then back up to NC. Or from DC to NY.

Yes, I can drive there, but then I'm tired, I haven't been able to work/sleep/rest/whatever and there's the time factor that others have mentioned.

Amtrak will probably pull business from the airlines in the northeast corridor while heightened security is in place. Here in DC, we had the same sort of security during the Gulf War, including at the airports and at the Pentagon - especially MetroRail around the Pentagon. But you know what? Desert Storm ended and unticketed folks were able to walk past security again.

I'll be on eight flights to three different cities in the next four weeks. All are originating out of Dulles. I suspect I'll show up two hours early and work down from there. But I'm not going to stop flying because of that extra two hours. Instead, I'll find a quiet corner to work or maybe just break down and finally join one or more of the airline clubs.

[nfp]

Flew the LAX-SFO United Shuttle on Monday. Gave myself three hours to get checked in expectng the worst, needed about 22 minutes.

First, there was no parking anywhere in the terminal area, which meant parking at a satellite location and taking a jitney to the terminal. But because there was NO traffic at all in the terminal area, it took about 1:32 (minutes, not hours) for the Aampco Parking jitney to get from my car to United's terminal 7 at LAX. Then, I noticed no one was travelling, so even though I was not allowed to go thru security and straight to the gate because I had no bags to check without checking in at the counter first, there were only about a half dozen people in front of me. That took about 5:00 (minutes, not hours. ) Then we had to go thru two security checkpoints that didn't exist before, but all they did was look at my boarding pass and check my photo i.d. Then I got to the metal detectors and x-ray machines, expecting to have my computer bag and overnight bag searched. Nope. Just through the machines as usual, and on my way. That took another 2:00 (minutes, not hours.) Meaning I had two hours to kill at the airport.

Then the best part, once were all aboard the United shuttle. My neighbor in the seat to my left told me she had had a cork-screw removed from her possession by security, which made sense to me. She shrugged her shoulders, opened her purse, and pulled out a cosmetics bag. From the cosmetics bag -- in plain sight on the plane -- she pulled....a steel nail file. Not an emery board, mind you, but an actual, sharp, pointed nail file. I stared at her in amazement and asked what the hell she was doing. She looked at me blankly and said, "Doing my nails, what do you think?" When I explained the incongruity of having a corkscrew removed from her possession, but security either not seeing or letting through a nail file, she blanched. It hadn't occurred to her. She quickly put it away, and smiled meekly.

What's the point of talking about sky marshals when we can't even have screening procedures find something as obvious as a long metal nail file with a sharp point?


nick

[realtraveller]

We just can't have people working security at the airport whose only other job option is flipping burgers at McDonalds.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

I heard that a shuttle left LaGuardia today with two pilots, four stewardesses, and one passenger.

I think I'm going to postpone my flight again. On top of everything else, I think it will be real spooky to get on an almost empty plane and have to sit there and wonder why I'm the only idiot who thought it was a good idea to fly. I know that doesn't make sense, that that doesn't mean it's any less or more safe then it will be in the future, but still.

Sigh I would love to have the cash to fly.

Ummmm... I would do it in a second if I did but kinda figure that filling out the survey would be kinda goofy in that respect...

Ander