Be honest here

[jnbmoore]

As I was at school today talking to all students from five different continents equally -- we had Hindus, Moslems, Catholics, Protestants, Agnostics, Buddhists, Shito, everyone

But in the back of my head -- I had this nagging question.

We'll be flying again soon to go house hunting. If we get on board a plane with more than two "middle Eastern looking" folks on it, would I be staying on the airplane????????

Bridgette

[hypotenuse]

You just can't let something like this warp your entire outlook on life. Doing so bows down to the terror that is the goal of terrorism.

Lynne

[drmomentum[$]]

I'm off that plane so fast...

But then, I leave federal buildings when I hear that a skinny white hick-looking guy has parked a van out front.

-JP

[jnbmoore]

Thanks JP

I laughed!!



Guess part of it is I'm a huggy person. And get hugged alot too -- especially female students from other countries will just come up and hug. One Egyptian gal gives me a hug almost every day.

So I don't think I'm a hundred percent biased.

but then I started thinking

would I ride a plane with her husband and four of his buddies?

Bridgette
being honest down in her heart and not PC

[hypotenuse]

I've been trying to be more articulate about why I think how I do, but I'm not getting anywhere. Not giving up either. So I'll be back. Don't hold your breath waiting though. It might take me a while. Not doing very well at communicating lately.

Lynne

[gransurfer1]

I don't fly very often. But, if I needed to I would - no matter who
was on the plane.

Driving is more dangerous than flying. The world is a dangerous place. Will you wrap yourself and your family in cotton and sit in your (supposedly) safe house? Will you never drive again, never walk across the street, never let your kids go to school?

We are all here for but a short time. Some shorter than others. We should be sad, angry, horrified by what has happened here in America.

Will you live in fear? Or will you live your life to the fullest in the time you have here?

[drmomentum[$]]

Xenophobic feelings are as natural as many other human frailties we are born with. And as I mentioned elsewhere, I appreciate honesty on this board and *encourage* it. That doesn't mean I have to like that people are having this reaction. And luckily, I can do something about it by making light a little bit, pointing out things I notice here and there.

But we can all do something about damaging fear we feel. We can choose not to act on the irrational and unjustifiable fear. To me that is a show of strength against terrorism, and a show of the strength of this nation.

Many will not choose to go this route because, frankly, many people do not have that strength within them. It's those Americans who do have that strength that I admire most. And there ar eenough of those to make the country great, I think.

-JP

[wivabef]

Originally posted by drmomentum

But we can all do something about damaging fear we feel. We can choose not to act on the irrational and unjustifiable fear. To me that is a show of strength against terrorism, and a show of the strength of this nation.

-JP

That is my point. I can be "honest" and admit I have irrational and unjustifiable fear. Why am I afraid of crowds? Why do I panic when I'm shoulder to shoulder with people. It is irrational, it is unjustifiable. I breathe harder when I'm sorting through the crowd. I hold my children and my husband closer to me. Sometimes, I step aside to get out of the crowd.

This fear is more irrational and unjustifiable than "feeling nervous" two days after thousands of people die and dozens of erroneous, irresponsible news reports because a group of arab speaking men board my plane. Yet this fear of crowds is more acceptable. Even if I avoid a crowd, that is acceptable. Saying I "feel nervous" -- not that I act on it, but saying that I "feel nervous" causes a negative response.

My animal instincts say, "run"

My human instincts say, "stay"

But do not fear me because I admit my irrational fears. I am as likely to act on them as that hypothetical group of arab speaking individuals is to hijack a plane.

(by the way, I voted for "I'm staying on board, they didn't do it")

[jgibson2[$]]

Two mddle eastern looking folks? Me, I'd probably be helping them with their carry-ons.

Shortly after the Oklahoma City bombing, I was in DC with a student group. Most of the group was touring the FBI building (shameless plug for my review on the subject). I was outside with one American and one German teacher. Two men - not skinny white guys -- parked a white panel van in a no-parking space and walked briskly across the street. The FBI canine special agent was promptly called into service to check out the van while a tow-truck was called. I was moving closer to see what was going on, so was the German teacher, when the American teacher grabbed us both and moved us quite briskly away from the scene. Shortly afterwards, the men returned with their carry-out lunch which probably got pretty cold while they were explaining their choice of parking spaces.

Well...

I would go on a flight with no real issue at all (if I was going on a flight right now though, considering my current financial situation, it would have to be ridiculously inexpensive to the point that considering it is kinda... Well... If I won a lot of money... ) but...

Ummmm... I tend to overcompensate a bit in some places to avoid racial stereotyping and this gets me into trouble at times. I have a pretty fair sense of people in general and when I start to ask myself "Am I being racist?" then I generally end up overriding that sense. Basically if my sense was that the people were terrorists (ummmm... I doubt that I would get that sense though:p) then I wouldn't stay on the plane.

Ander

[juliette]

I would definitely get on the flight and stay on. In fact, (God willing, as they say) I will be flying from Chicago to Miami/ Miami to Lima Peru next week, and my main concern is that they serve me something yummy for dinner. (Look for my review of Machu Picchu in early Oct!)

Seriously, it is probably safer to fly now than ever, no matter what nationality-looking people are on the flight, just because security (and paranoia!) are so high.

How safe it is to be an American tourist is some places, now that's another story...

[AmyLEnsor]

I'd stay on the plane because I feel like it might be a sign that I was losing it if I were to get off for that reason. And I'd stay on the plane because if I thought there was a chance that there might be hijackers on it, I'd want to make sure they didn't crash the plane into a big building. I can't believe that hijackers getting on a plane with boxcutters could think they'd get the response they want now. I'm sure there would be a bunch of people who would say, "What, are you shitting me" and tackle the guys. I know I would! I told my husband that were I ever to die in some sort of attack and he was interviewed by the news I wouldn't want him to say, "Oh I'm sure she was trying to help people because she was such a good person." Tell people, "she was a mean and angry bitch and I'm sure she tried to gouge out some eyes and bash their heads in before she went down."

I do have to say, though, that I am always in fear for my life when I get on a plane. Statistics aside, it just feels like it can't possibly be safe and I'm always thankful when the plane touches down and doesn't explode.

[CeeJay62]

Originally posted by wivabef


That is my point. I can be "honest" and admit I have irrational and unjustifiable fear. Why am I afraid of crowds? Why do I panic when I'm shoulder to shoulder with people. It is irrational, it is unjustifiable. I breathe harder when I'm sorting through the crowd. I hold my children and my husband closer to me. Sometimes, I step aside to get out of the crowd.

If we are going to confess irrational fears, I have always been afraid of heights. I never fly and I quiver if I have to go above (about) the 10th floor of a building. I can stand on top of a mountain and look down, but that is because my feet are on the ground.

Tuesday did not do a lot to change any of that, hence I voted to never go near an airport again.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

Well, I was supposed to be flying cross-country into JFK tomorrow morning (talk about bad timing!) and I did reschedule it till next week -- mostly because the airports will be crazy/busy tomorrow and I don't want to get stranded at the airport all day. It didn't seem right to cancel the trip altogether though.

I agree with Juliette -- this may be one of the safer times to fly, with security being so tight.

And the airline did cancel all the direct flights on that route, and has all the flights changing over midway. I think that's a good thing.

Though I am nervous. Well, I'm always nervous about flying, but now I guess I'll just have something different to worry about, and since I can really only do a thorough job of worrying about one thing at a time, it will probably all be about the same. I do plan to have a few drinks. I normally don't drink alcohol on airplanes because I heard you'll feel better in the long run if you stick to water, but I'm going to make an exception this time, and so what if I'm more jet-lagged at the end.

Will I want to get off the plane if there were more than a couple of middle eastern looking people on it? Well, since in a pinch I could pass for middle eastern looking myself, it depends on whether I have a mirror and count myself as one of the two.

Seriously, I'm pretty bad at identifying people's nationalities by the way they look. If there were a group of sort-of middle eastern looking people who seemed very agitated or hyped up, and they were arguing excitedly in Arabic while poring over maps of United States landmarks, yeah, I think I would panic. Otherwise -- well, I'm trying to be honest here -- I really don't know. I think I would assume that security is tight enough that it's unlikely a highjacker would be on board. I'm also hoping that since I'm flying one of the most dangerous routes (although not as bad as it would be if the original non-stop flight was still running), that those plainclothes security people that are supposed to be on some flights would actually be there on that flight. I also think it's much less likely that a hijacking will happen in the near future, because they've lost the element of surprise, and also people are more likely to fight back, though coward that I am, I don't know if I would be one of those people.

In any case, I certainly wouldn't get off the plane just because I spotted someone (other than myself) who looked like they could be middle eastern. I'm actually more afraid of making a total ass of myself by getting off the plane than of being blown up -- just because the chances of making an ass of myself if I did that are so incredibly high and the chances of getting blown up are so incredibly low.

Do I sound rational here? Don't feel that way completely, and am already trying to think of what kind of drinks I want to order. I like wine, but I don't think that's going to get me as sloshed as I want to be getting.

[frazzledspice]

I think I might fly Southwest.....

The way I figure, a would-be hijacking team is going to want to have assigned seats, on the aisles, evenly distributed throughout the plane--maybe 10 rows a hijacker.

Southwest's first-come, first-serve seating system wouldn't give them the control they'd want. What if they wound up in the middle between two 6'5" guys?

Then, too, Southwest doesn't have first class. No curtains to be pulled across. I imagine it's a lot easier to conduct a hijacking by securing the small first class section first in relative privacy and then letting the team take care of the remainder of the plane.

Yes, much as I abhor Southwest's service, with stops and plane changes along the way, it might be the safest way to fly.

[nicholmere]

Originally posted by AmyLEnsor
..."she was a mean and angry bitch and I'm sure she tried to gouge out some eyes and bash their heads in before she went down."...

I agree with everything you said, but I especially liked the part above.

[drmomentum[$]]

Relatively speaking, few of the victims were on planes.

How many of you are going to be nervous going into a highrise knowing that there are planes flying around?

-JP

[wivabef]

JP's right...

flying is still safer than driving.

According to MADD.org, in 1999, there were 510 traffic fatalities on the Fourth of July, 227 of them in alcohol related accidents.

266(?) people died in plane accidents on 9/11/01.

Elyzabeth
(who's father was an airline pilot who gladly flew vietnamese refugees to safety in Guam)

[hypotenuse]

I'm back to try to expand upon my answer.

Would I notice the two middle eastern looking people on the plane? Yup. Would I change my plans. No. I can say this with confidence because I make this type of decision every day.

I'm in the south. I'm sure other parts of the country have their share of bigotry and racism, but face it; it's something we're famous for down here. From birth little white girls are taught to fear the actions of what some black guy will do to her if provided the chance. And they're taught how to avoid those circumstances. I understand that little black girls are taught the same thing about white guys, probably with more reason.

This is easing up amoung the younger generations, but still fairly prevelant.

Now, I wasn't raised this way. My mother is death on bigotry and racism. She can skewer a pompous ass spouting this nonesense with a maximum of one sentence. I admire that. But, as I'm sure most parents know, a child's education does not stop when she walks out the front door. And I'm having the same problem with my children. More than once I've had to stop the world while I rearranged the mental processes of my children when they've come home repeating thoughts heard at school from their friends. Who are repeating the thoughts and attitudes of their parents.

But anyhow. You simply cannot let that sort of attitude drive your life. You make a conscious decision to override your culture and upbringing. Yes, I will ride this bus. And yes, I will take that seat available by the black man. And yes, I will strike up a conversation just as I would with anyone else. I've met many an interesting person this way and had fascinating conversations.

Have I been burned? Well, yes. But it only proves my point in another thread. Individual persons are good and bad, no matter their culture or religion. I know this because I've been burned by different people of different races, cultures, and religions. Just as I've made friends with the same.

So yes, I would take the plane, no matter who was on it. Because it would be a plane consisting of individuals, not nationalities.

Lynne

[hypotenuse]

Shades of Kevin Bacon....

We were stationed on Guam when I was a kid. My brother was born there. He used to get immigration notices. That picture of me in the baby contest? Was taken on Guam.



Lynne - who admires anyone who would land an airplane on Guam. Talk about your short runways...

[Mrsfitts]

I have friends and co-workers and people I hang out with at the bowling alley (I'm president of our league this year -even though I can't bowl -I can plan the parties and stuff) My friends are based on their personalities, not their skin colors.

My friends are from all over, but the ones who's parents were from the Middle East were actually born and schooled in England. That makes them English by birth -but you can't tell by looking at their clothes, skin or eyes.

At my work you have to have clearances, the co-workers I work with and like all have clearances -I would be on a plane in a second with any one of them -their cousins, their friends.

Going that far with the logic problem, I have to honestly say that I have never looked at a person via their skin first to see if I would fly (I do that with babies though -I really hate to fly 5 hours with screaming, but I fixed that with some new headphones)

I do have strong faith in God, and I do believe that my time is my time no matter how I try to duck it. I'm not going to deliberately hurt another human because of his ancestor's heritage.

Not Everyone Has The Good Fortune To Be Born Irish! :p

Before all this happened, I didn't like flying. Even the slightest jolt, dip, swerve, and noise would send me into a heart-palpitating panic. If it weren't for the dismal train service in this country, I'd be on the rails and taking my time.

The fact that people fit the Arabic stereotype are on my plane, will I be concerned? Probably... I notice details and jump to conclusions rather quickly. Carry-on packages and knives and folks sweating with overstuffed jackets will also trigger my spidey-sense.

So, in light of all this, I'm looking for investors in my new bold concept: Naked Airlines.

[wivabef]

Originally posted by hypotenuse
Shades of Kevin Bacon....

We were stationed on Guam when I was a kid. My brother was born there. He used to get immigration notices. That picture of me in the baby contest? Was taken on Guam.



Lynne - who admires anyone who would land an airplane on Guam. Talk about your short runways...

Please don't be upset with me because I remember differently. My mom has corrected me. He took vietnamese refugees OUT of Guam and into Honolulu! But, he was still there! And I have in my possession some before the fall vietnamese paper currency that someone wrote a note of thanks upon and gave to my Dad. Pretty cool.

Dad also flew in the RCAF after Korea and before Vietnam.

[wivabef]

Originally posted by file13

So, in light of all this, I'm looking for investors in my new bold concept: Naked Airlines.

File -- you should check out www.nakednews.com. Maybe if the whole world were naked, it would be like their logo says, "Nothing to hide".