Question for financial experts

kurt_messick · #1 10-02-2001, 03:24 PM

What happens when you have to abandon a house on which you have a substantial mortgage?

My moldy house may in fact have to be abandoned, as I get physically ill being there now, and my cats are beginning to react to the moldiness too. Almost all of my possessions have been tainted; I'll probably lose half of what I own.

I'd be happy enough in some regards to just get an apartment somewhere with the cats and start again from scratch. But I have no idea what one actually does to leave a house.

Does this mean I'll have to file for bankruptcy?

Any and all advice very welcome (as are prayers and good wishes)...

sylvanb · #2 10-02-2001, 03:41 PM

Oh, gosh, this is so sad

I'm projecting here...I love my house.

Is it unsalable? Some palliative measures might make it fine for others even if not for you.

Not a financial expert, just play one when I put my bean-counter hat on, and chiming in mostly to sympathize.

queenofallevil · #3 10-02-2001, 03:49 PM

Wow Kurt....believe it or not my brother is going through the exact same thing for the exact same reason! He's got 3 kids, and they are always sick from the mold. The foundation is so wet all the time, and holds moisture so long there isn't anything he can do. This has been going on for years.

I sure hope someone can help you out here. That's no place for a saint to be living!

If I hear any advice from my bro, I'll pass it on to you.

Val

kurt_messick · #4 10-02-2001, 04:04 PM

I want to sell the house anyway (so I can move to Indianapolis), but with the house in the shape that it is in, it will be impossible. It makes me ill to sleep overnight in the house. By this weekend, I need to determine the live-ability of the house.

Any advice is welcome!

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #5 10-02-2001, 04:18 PM

No financial advice, just positive thoughts and prayers!

mj

**conradd** · #6 10-02-2001, 04:27 PM

Kurt, have you contacted your homeowner's insurance agent? If you have a mold problem, this would be a very good place to start.

Deb

**pageclot**[$] · #7 10-02-2001, 05:07 PM

I agree with Deb; a call to your insurance company is the place to start.

Banks will tend to want their money back, so you'll probably be stuck with the mortgage if you abandon the house. If you default on the payments, the bank will likely take back the house and then sell it for whatever it can get on the open market, which will likely be less than what you could get for it, if you fixed the mold problem and then sold it through a realtor.

Maybe a call to your mortgage-holder would be wise, too. They may have other options, where you pay only the interest for a while, or suspend payments, etc. They will likely have dealt with difficult house-sale situations before, so they may have people to call who can take care of the problem.

Good luck, Kurt. We managed to get rid of the mold problem in our crawl space by running dehumidifiers round the clock for several weeks.

pageclot

sylvanb · #8 10-02-2001, 05:29 PM

Hmmmm...I wonder about those disaster-recovery outfits, like ServiceMaster. They do things like clean-ups after a fire. Homeowners might help with the cost, also if you are going to be stuck with the mortgage it might be worth it.

nicholmere · #9 10-02-2001, 05:33 PM

This may sound a bit like being back in high school, but maybe you should get a doctor's note. Some sort of proof that you are physicially unwell due to the house's condition might be necessary so that you don't have any problems proving that the house is unlivable for you and the kitties. Maybe a vet's note too?

This new meaning to the term 'homesick' sounds horrible. I certainly wish you well and hope this is resolved without any great finanical loss.

kurt_messick · #10 10-02-2001, 05:52 PM

Homeowners insurance won't cover it -- already checked. Specifically excludes water damage save that as a result of some non-water problem (largely language designed to avoid paying out in event of flood).

My problem is I cannot afford to repair this house. I was barely holding things together as it was. I'm mortgaged as high as I can go, am doing the consumer credit thing to rearrange my other bills, and have a big tax bills from the past few years. I can't afford this now, particularly if it is going to threaten everything else I own.

I'm feeling that bankruptcy is my only course of action right now.

This has been the year of disasters for me. My car was totalled in the winter; my heart problem and hiatal hernia problem worsened in the summer, and now my house is collapsing.

nicholmere · #11 10-02-2001, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kurt_messick
...I'm feeling that bankruptcy is my only course of action right now. ..

What a most unwelome position to be in. The little I know about bankruptcy is that I think it stays on your credit history for years, but that it is eventually taken off.

I assume in your line of work that you will always be able to find a job

, so I hope you don't have any fears of being out of work.

With regards to your house: what are the options?

- Try to sell it even though you know the water problem is too advanced to make it an easy sale. You never know what someone else's agenda is - who knows maybe someone would be interested in a next-to-impossible fixer-upper?

- Is there any way of holding the builders or previous owners accountable in some way. I'm assuming there isn't, and that it would just be an attempt to pass on the problem, but given your alternatives it might be worth looking in to.

- sell the house for parts? Sounds like taking apart an old car, but when I visit flea markets they are always selling bizarre house parts - windows, doors, door knobs ... etc. And then sell the property to a builder? I assume you'd want to hire someone to do this, but getting some money would be better than nothing.

- what type of neighbourhood is your house located in? I wouldn't think that the neighbours would think too kindly of having an abandoned house on their street. Maybe they'd be willing to help in someway, either out of the goodness of their hearts or just general self-interest in their own property values.

Has Poseidon/Jeff seen this thread yet? Given his employment background he might be able to offer some valuable advice.

**pageclot**[$] · #12 10-02-2001, 09:34 PM

Kurt, it probably seems like there's no way out right about now, and the stress of money worries is probably not helping at all, but there are a few options available, aside from bankruptcy.

Say hi to the mortgage holder and explain the situation. Getting the house sold is the priority, as that's probably costing you far more than you would be paying in rent in Indianapolis.

Saving the rest of your clothing would be the next step. Lots of plastic bags in which to store your clothes might save the ones that haven't been affected by mold so far. Lysol all your surfaces to get rid of surface mold. For carpets, a steam cleaner can be rented or borrowed.

If you have forced air heating or cooling, the ductwork would be a good place to look for mold infestation.

Large dehumidifiers can get rid of humidity pretty quickly. You'll find yourself emptying out astonishing amounts of water from the drip tray. Only problem is, they're not inexpensive. Ask your friends for a short-term loan of theirs, if they have one. Get one for every room.

Or look into renting them.

I guess the main thing is to get the house into "sellable" condition, and then unload it as quickly as possible, which would probably leave you in far better financial condition. I don't know what the long-term consequences of bankruptcy are, but they can't be good.

Oh, and your books will have to be baggied too, Kurt. I've heard of people putting things into baggies and then pumping the air out of the baggie, until you have a vaccuum packed and sealed baggie. That's what I'd want to do with my books, if they were threatened by mildew. You can disinfect them later, if they're affected, but putting them in vaccuum will slow the spread of the mold.

Good luck.

pageclot

kurt_messick · #13 10-02-2001, 10:38 PM

No way to hold previous owners or builders responsible -- the house is over 100 years old. I've lived here nearly 8 years; no way in fairness to afix blame anywhere else.

Two friends who are insurance agents tell me they are not surprised this is not covered. Mold is considered more of a home-maintenance issue. I.E., my fault if I didn't get it addressed sooner (and yes, I've known about the leaky basement all along -- had to get dispensation from the original mortgage lender to make the loan without guarantee of a permanently dry basement). I do have a dehumidifier and sump pump/well arrangment down there. Most of the time it works fine, and I never notice anything wrong.

Things seem stable today, although I still have a headache from being in the house, and it is not psychosomatic, either. However, the cats are lively and playful, so it isn't affecting them. They are a primary concern, and the minute things start affecting them badly, we're all out of here.

All advice is welcome. Thanks for the input thus far.

nicholmere · #14 10-03-2001, 09:26 AM

I was browsing for MOLD on Google since I don't know too much about mold myself.

If you've already visited these sites, then sorry for the duplication, but if they're new to you too then maybe they'll have some helpful suggestions.

EPA: MOLD RESOURCES

New York City Department of Health:
Facts About Mold
One of the things it says is If mold contamination is extensive, a professional abatement company may need to be consulted. I looked at several sites that offered the abatement services, there were some from all over the country, but they all seem similar so if you go this route you'd want to find one in your area.

This site Toxic Mold and Tort News is a US based site, and they say In addition, we provide important legal rights and information for those who have been adversely affected by Toxic Mold in their home, workplace, and elsewhere. They give a contact person for each region of the US. It looks like you have to send them an e-mail before they'll tell you too much. I saw no upfront comments on services fee, but there might be some cost involved.

This one The AMA Consortium looks like another laywer site.

There is a Yahoo group for sickbuildings · Sick Buildings Support and Information
which seems to be more for professional buildings, but you may want to visit the board to check for yourself.

This site EnvironmentalHazards.com has several pages of information on the potentially deadly affects of mold.

In the brief reading I've done I have not seen any mention that gave abandoning the home as an option. Of course some of the solutions may be so expensive that you'd have no choice but to cut your loses (and save your health) and leave.

One thing I did see mentioned frequently was the recommended use of HEPA filters. We have two portable air filters that we bought because of our allergies to our cats. Both were bought at Sears, and both have HEPA filters. They have worked wonders. If you don't have one already you may want to consider getting one to run in the room, or rooms, that you use most often. Especially in the bedroom if you are still spending some nights at home.

kurt_messick · #15 10-03-2001, 12:40 PM

I've looked into the filters -- alas, they are too expensive for me. I cannot afford them. Part of the problem here is that I was just barely holding on financially to this house, in the hopes of selling it sometime this year and moving to a less expensive apartment much closer to work (save on rent and fuel costs). This problem will make it virtually impossible to sell, I fear. It already had lots of cosmetic things that needed doing.

Things were somewhat better today air-quality wise; however, a quick inspection of cabinets found mold spots on many inside doors in the kitchen and living room.

Alas...

evmori · #16 10-03-2001, 01:04 PM

Kurt,
Being a former lender and collector, I have some ideas.
1) If you can avoid bankruptcy, do it at all costs. It will ruin your credit for the next 7 years.

2) Talk to the mortgage company. See if you can work out some type of payment arrangement with them.

3) You posted you were working with a consumer credit agency to rearrange you other bills. Is there a fee for this service? If so, there is an organization called Consumer Credit Counseling Services. They help people who are having problems paying their monthly bill. This is a free service to consumers.

I hope this helps.

KateTPZ · #17 10-03-2001, 04:19 PM

I wish I had some suggestions for you. I know what it's like to be in the barely-holding-on-financially position, but without the added stress of a sick house. My thoughts are prayers are with you.

kurt_messick · #18 10-03-2001, 06:13 PM

I am using CCCS, and have an appointment with them next week.

:smileo:

theeye · #19 10-03-2001, 09:59 PM

Kurt -

I am so terribly sorry to hear this update. I haven't much in the way of useful advice that hasn't already been offered. If you can look up that NYT article in the library, you might find some names there of people who specialize in this sort of problem. Please also be VERY vigilant about your health: the cats may be a primary concern, but you are the primary concern.

I do think that it's essential that you find some company that specializes in this sort of problem to come in and try to clean out the house ASAP -- time is really of the essence.

I'm really so, so terribly sorry to hear of all your troubles and will hope and pray that things somehow turn around.

theeye · #20 10-03-2001, 11:32 PM

On second thought, I've got one small piece of practical advice:

Interest rates have dropped a lot recently. Try calling your mortgage company and see if you can renegotiate the interest rate. Sometimes they'll lower the interest rate without requiring any inspection for just a nominal application fee (under the theory that you'll take your business elsewhere otherwise). This would at least lower your monthly payments while you try to find a real solution to the problem.

Nicolemere posted some terrific resources: call every one of them ASAP and see what advice they can give you. This is NOT a unique problem: you've got to get in touch with people who've dealt with it before and take advantage of their knowledge base.

theeye · #21 10-03-2001, 11:51 PM

Here's another page that looks helpful: "Mold in My Home: What Do I Do?"

frazzledspice · #22 10-04-2001, 12:17 PM

Kurt, sometimes installing french drains will divert water from the foundation. These can be installed by landscapers, but I know a family who installed them on their own. Basically you dig a trench around the perimeter of the house and fill it with small rocks and stones. I'm sure you could find instructions in the library or on the internet.

There are foundation specialists who can give you estimates on remediating the foundation problems.

Using epoxy paint on the interior basement walls may help, to a small extent, in sealing the cracks.

evmori · #23 10-04-2001, 12:55 PM

Kurt,
Bad French drains are probably the main cause of your problem. Installing them is a lot of work, but it is cheaper than having someone else do it. Besides the ditch & gravel you will nee PVC perforatted pipe to divert the water.

Good luck!

mtbat · #24 10-04-2001, 05:45 PM

epoxy paint might help alot-the drain thing too-

one thing to concider-buying a used rv or trailer and hooking it up on the property to water and electric-that way you would have a place non-moldy to sleep and eat w/ the poor kitties until you figure out what to do.

you'd have to either put a tube into the sewer system or find an rv park w/ a dump station but thats actually not a big problem most areas-what we do is buy a state parks pass and use the state parks dump station for our Rv no matter where we camp-

Just a thought

good luck-theeye-you made me want to go buy 100gallons of bleach and clean EVERYTHING!

Fridai