Grammar?

[vania]

Okay, here's my question:

There exists a certain writer on Epinions who just irks me to no end. Not because he/she (I honestly don't know) is particularly abusive in any way, but because his/her reviews are so poorly written that they are almost incomprehensible. I'm talking about major typos, misspellings, sentence fragments, and non-related words thrown together in a way that just don't make any sense. The reviews are generally confusing and seem to lack any cohesive thought patterns or logical structure.

I really try to avoid this person's reviews, but somehow I just keep stumbling upon the darn things! At first, I couldn't help but give them an SH, just for the general chaos of it all.....

the only problem is: everyone else seems to rate these reviews VH and H!

Why why why?? Am I just being too harsh? I mean, I guess this person is trying to write a helpful review. Should effort count?

For now, I'm just refraining from rating any of it.

Just wondering what everyone else's take on this is? Do you guys rate down for poor writing, or am I just a big meanie?

vania

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

mis-Capitalization, poor spelinng, bad punctuation: and the like get me heated too. Personally, if there's only a few and the content is terrific, I let it slide and go with VH or H (depending on content). If the content is OK but there are a dozen grammar-related issues, SH or H. For the review you're describing (confusion especially), I go with NH.

Misplaced apostrophes are my pet peeve, with a special GRRRRR!!!! for the wrong use of it's (and its heinous cousin, the non-existent word its').

mj

[lynnzop[$]]

Originally posted by vania
Just wondering what everyone else's take on this is? Do you guys rate down for poor writing, or am I just a big meanie?

Yep.

Oh, I should probably explain that

Back when I was more active on the site, I would rate down for excessively poor grammar/spelling. I would also offer suggestions and offer to re-rate if the writer wanted me to do so.

I'm no English teacher, but I believe that an epinion is more credible to the consumer if the writer demonstrates at least an elementary grasp of the English language.

That said, I was usually more tough than you. If the review was as bad as you have described, I probably NH'd it. And many, many times, I was the only one.

I took some grief because some of the person(s) whom I roughed up "had issues that prohibited them from typing well". I'm sorry, but I go back to the old school of epinions is a site for consumers to gain advice on products and services.

I know there are people out there who like to write and like to use epinions as their "outlet". Sometimes, however, writing is not their strong suit. IMHO, the rating system at epinions is not meant to make friends or make someone feel better about themselves. It's about the quality of the review. If the review is not high quality, whatever the reason, it does not deserve a VH or MH.

Not all of us are talented in every thing we'd like to be able to do. I, for example, do not attempt to train our horses (even though I have some knowledge of how to do it), because it's not my forte.

Long dissertation on a seemingly easy question...call me a b* if you'd like, but that's MY opinion.

Lynn
(Who is going to recheck this reply 7 times to be sure there are no typos or gramatical errors in it )

[vania]

I'm no English teacher, but I believe that an epinion is more credible to the consumer if the writer demonstrates at least an elementary grasp of the English language.

A kindred spirit!

I used to use those same lines in my comments ("It's not credible if it's written poorly, etc.") until I got just too fed up to bother.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!

v.

[nicholmere]

If a review is so poorly written that you have difficulty understanding it, then it's unlikely that it's very helpful to you, so I think it's ok to rate accordingly. If the content, despite it's grammatical errors, still provides some helpful information to the consumer/you then I think it's ok to rate it an H instead of an SH though.

[kurt_messick]

To be honest, it depends upon my mood for the day.

Some days I'll let those issues slide more than others, but I never disregard them entirely. Occasionally I will send an email or post a comment about something that needs to be corrected, but not so much any more.

The 60-second specials, though, I used to give NH ratings (now I just back out without rating). A 60-second special is my term for those reviews that have no capitalisation whatsoever, no concern for grammar, and even tend to mis-spell the common colloquial spellings (for example, mis-spelling 'gonna' as 'gona').

BTW, I tend to use British convention in grammar and spelling. It helps for several reasons, not the least of which is when I post a seminary paper up as a review of a book (as reviewing books was a regular assignment in many classes) -- the professors know when my reviews have been lifted and submitted under another name because of the variation.

[lynnzop[$]]

Kurt, my brother uses the Brit form of spelling, too. (And he's an epinionator). While it drives me nuts (well, he's my little brother, so most of what he does drives me nuts ), I've never dissed him in an epinion because of it.

I know what his favourites are, and I can do it too. Must be from reading too much Agatha Christie as a child : )

Lynn

[CANS4US]

...and to brutally honest, I have often read epinions which make me itch to grab my "red pencil" and "get to work!" BUT.........I don't and for several reasons. One: The reader oftentimes does not know the background of the writer and as we all know, persons from different backgrounds and countries write in entirely different styles. Two: I began reading epinions as a way to learn more about products.....(the writing part came later) and because of the original need of mine (and others as well) I try to read the articles in the way they were intended....to educate and illustrate the writers experience with the product at hand. And Three: I realized a long time ago that it is not my place to judge others on their writing in an "English teacher's" way of judging.....it is someone elses...... So, in conclusion: I have put away my red pencil...(and my thinking cap as well these days) until that time in which I am requested to be "judge and jury" of my peers.....


But.........


It is OK to be irritated with mis-spellings, and other grammatical errors, but don't let them get the best of you....and certainly don't let them get in the way of enjoying that which you read! When reading epinions becomes a chore instead of a treat......then it is time to find another hobby!

Happy Writing!

Susan
CANS4US

.......not sure where I go from here....but am looking forward to the trip!

[AmyLEnsor]

If the grammar is bad enough to render the review unintelligible, I'm going to give it a bad rating. Who has time to wade through this stuff and try and figure out what you think the person was trying to say? Errors that jump out at me but don't take away too much from the content will not influence my rating overly much. But the you're/your thing really bugs me. The its/it's thing doesn't as much.

[jenninca]

I am one who will take off for awful grammar and spelling if I have to take extra time to figure out what they're trying to say. If they can't make their message understood, then it's not really helpful to me.

Cindy
who, yes, teaches English

[lambchops]

I definitely take off for spelling. There are times when I feel like telling people to go try a spell check engine (and as we all know, that doesn't catch 'em all). So far as grammar goes, I will take off to a point. If it's punctuation (or lack there of) yes, I'm a stickler for the periods and commas...or all exclaimation points. Grammar will also depend on my mood.

[pluckyduck]

I approach the rating of "Helpful" as a wide sea that can encompass quite a few levels of Epinions quality. Personally, I don't think of Epinions rating as a situation where I would "take off" for grammar or spelling or whatnot, I try to rate through the eyes of Average Joe Consumer who might be looking for information.

A relatively short Epinion with a few spelling or grammar mistakes can still be helpful to someone who is looking for information about a coffeemaker. If you emailed your sister about her coffeemaker, and she sent you an email back that said:

"I bought that coffeemaker six months ago, and I'm sorrry I ever did! The coffeemaker looks good, and it promises to make coffee very fast which it does. BUT - Youd think that $100 would buy a coffeemaker that didn't brake down every two weeks wouldn't you? I have had to have mine fixed three times in the six months Ive owned it. There is something wrong with the heating coil I think. Not only do I think its a pile of garbage, my neighbor has the exact same model and she has already thrown hers iin the trash. The coffeemaker looks good, but it is not reliable."


Now, if you got that email from your sister, would it be helpful if you are looking for information about this coffeemaker? I think so.

I try to approach rating the same way.

Andrea

[jenninca]

I'm not talking about that kind, Andrea. I'm talking about the kind where the periods seem inserted at random, I have to try three times to figure out what a word is, and their message is almost completely lost due to poor sentence construction. The example above, I have no problem with.

Cindy

!santa

[MiDoyle]

Grammar is important, true. However, those who continually harp on misspellings, missing punctuation, and other problems should take a look at their own work first.

I cast no erasers here, only a note that those who think they are the "cats pajamas" in a given area usually fall short themselves.

I for one, continually find problems in my reviews that embarrass my own English degree.

Therefore, I try to rate on content alone. It seems to work for me anyway.

If I really can't read something, I move on. And, I avoid those epinioners whose reviews and writing styles I've grown to dislike. There are a few TRs that just drivel on and on and on.

[mnehr]

MiDoyle...
You make a very good point that strikes a cord with something I used to do on the site for fun.
Whenever someone left a comment recommending a reviewer fix their grammar or spelling, I would always check their reviews for the same issues. 99% of the time, they were just as bad as the person they were complaining about.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

Originally posted by pluckyduck

"I bought that coffeemaker six months ago, and I'm sorrry I ever did! The coffeemaker looks good, and it promises to make coffee very fast which it does. BUT - Youd think that $100 would buy a coffeemaker that didn't brake down every two weeks wouldn't you? I have had to have mine fixed three times in the six months Ive owned it. There is something wrong with the heating coil I think. Not only do I think its a pile of garbage, my neighbor has the exact same model and she has already thrown hers iin the trash. The coffeemaker looks good, but it is not reliable."


Now, if you got that email from your sister, would it be helpful if you are looking for information about this coffeemaker? I think so.

I try to approach rating the same way.

Andrea

I would actually consider that very helpful -- and possibly even most helpful if, say, I had just gone through four coffemakers that all had bad heating coils and my main concern was to find one that wouldn't break down on me this time.

But I sorta feel I should reserve VHs and especially MHs for reviews that have some literary merit, to reward the extra effort and talent involved, even though I can't really justify that because it doesn't have much to do with the purchasing-decision-helpfulness. So that's where I start dithering, and feeling that after all this time I still have no idea how to rate, and then get afraid to leave any rating, and just back out.

[pluckyduck]

Originally posted by jenninca
I'm not talking about that kind, Andrea. I'm talking about the kind where the periods seem inserted at random, I have to try three times to figure out what a word is, and their message is almost completely lost due to poor sentence construction. The example above, I have no problem with.

Cindy

!santa

I'm playing with semantics here, so forgive me...but if that's what everyone in the thread is talking about, then we aren't talking about rating down for grammar and spelling.

We're talking about whether the Epinion is readable or not. That's an entirely different matter. The Queen of Don't Push the NH Button Quickly (that would be me ), pushes "NH" for Epinions that can't be read. What's the point in that?

I rated one a week or so ago that a couple other people had SHs on. I pushed NH and wrote (hopefully not too snottily) that I was really sorry but I just couldn't understand a word he/she was trying to say.

As far as I was concerned, you really couldn't get much more NH.

Andrea

[pluckyduck]

I would actually consider that very helpful -- and possibly even most helpful if, say, I had just gone through four coffemakers that all had bad heating coils and my main concern was to find one that wouldn't break down on me this time.

Well, first of all, I'll tell you that my fake email/epinion would be sure to garner a majority of SHs, and possibly, depending upon who came along, possibly an NH or two. I have seen people leave really low ratings accompanied by the comment that this isn't the place to leave rants about companies/products.



Excuse me? Epinions isn't the place to rant? Oh for crying out loud, it is too!

Now, I wouldn't rate the above as VH, because to me, a VH (literary merit or not) contains more detail about aspects of the product that would interest a broader range of consumers. It doesn't have to contain every single detail (like the color of the power cord), but it does give more.

Andrea

[jrk]

I'll name no names, but I have an anecdote worth relating (at least it seems so to me).

Once upon a time, a very popular (for some unfathomable reason) Eps member wrote one of those beaten-to-death Community Center reviews on How I Rate. This member was a self- proclaimed grammar perfectionist and professional writer, and he/she made it clear that marks would be deducted from any review that failed to meet his/her high standards.

Oh, the irony! The member's How I Rate review had at least two dozen typos and grammatical errors in it. Being in a particularly angelic frame of mind on the day I read that editorial , I refrained from rating or leaving a nasty comment. Instead, I e-mailed the member, offering to point out the few dozen errors for correction. I was not mixing subtlety with my angelic behavior that day, however, so I flat out said that the profusion of errors in this holier- than-thou editorial made the member look both foolish and hypocritical.

Boy, did I get a response to that e-mail! And it was full of typos, too! My message of "people who live in glass houses . . ." was not received very well, to say the least.

If an opinion has a lot of useful information, I'll rate it for its content, even if the grammar and spelling make me cringe. I prefer houses made of brick myself.

[MiDoyle]

Jrk:

Point taken. Anyone who writes one of those "how I rate thingys" (myself included) is asking for it from the community.

Originally, I did take my ratings more seriously, but I was only fooling myself.

For the record I do use "its" and "it's" properly, or so I think.

[Blackelve]

"This member was a self- proclaimed grammar perfectionist and professional writer, and he/she made it clear that marks would be deducted from any review that failed to meet his/her high standards"


Whew, we know this isn't me...maybe a pro writer, but my grammar sucks and I admit it right away...that's what I have agents and editors for...lol...I write, not edit.

Nell