Minimum Word Count

[magenta321]

I vaguely remember that when I started at Epinions, there was a 200 word minimum for reviews. That was changed to a 500 word minimum. Community standards have set the length requirement at an even higher word count.

I am just about to write my review of Delia's, and I noticed this above the field where you type the review in:

Briefly describe your shopping experience at dELiA's. (20 word minimum)

Huh? 20 words? Ok... what can I say in 20 words?

Delia's sucks. I will never buy anything from them again. Their brick and mortar store is for teeny-boppers and I ordered stuff online and it never came.

Oops. That was a good deal more than the minimum. Gosh, I wonder how little one could really say if they wanted to.

Is this the new standard for Epinions? A brief snippet, a la Amazon? Is this the death of the Opus-length product reviews?

[kurt_messick]

That was changed to a 500 page minimum.

EEK! Even my thesis wasn't that long, and neither will be my dissertation.

But, back to the main point. 20 word minimum? I can't imagine that ever getting a good measure of VH's.

Welcome to Haiku Epinions!

[magenta321]

Oops, read what I mean, not what I say Father.

I meant 500 word minimum.

And now, back to the thread at hand...

[argonut]

Originally posted by kurt_messick
Welcome to Haiku Epinions!

How about --

dELiA's, a Tanka


dELiA's
selling beeny-bopper booty
maliciously
an online experience
fit to make de Sade squirm

[amykhar]

Epinions has stated that short consumer experiences about online shopping are what online consumers are looking for. I have seen some shorter reviews that serve that purpose quite well.

Online shoppers are looking for stuff like: "I bought x at store y. The price was a bit more expensive than store z's, but the customer service was fantastic."

That "review" was really short, but I gave you some good info. Several mini-reviews like this can give consumers a good idea of how they will fare at the site.

Rating such reviews is not too hard. Did they say something helpful about pricing? service? quality of the merchandise? Not sure I would give my mini review a VH, but I think it definitely merits an H. It's the same thing I would have told any of you about store y if you had asked me.

Amy

[pluckyduck]

I am confused.

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I am very confused.



I went to check the specs on delias, and searched way too long for the "Write a Review!" link...ended up pushing a link that said "Rate this Merchant" and came up with this:

http://www.epinions.com/content/subm..._~220791214977

Which says:

Briefly describe your shopping experience at dELiA's. (20 word minimum)



Okay, I'll admit that I've been haven't been to the mothersite in about two weeks, but did something major happen that I've missed?

Rate this merchant is not the same thing as "Write a review".



Andrea

[amykhar]

If I understand correctly, Online stores is the only category that this is true about.

Perhaps Epinions partnered with somebody for online store reviews? Look how organized that section is now. It looks almost like Muse.

I know that software comes from an outside source as well. (The organization SUCKS in software.)

Amy

[pluckyduck]

Sigh.

I think I am just jinxed. I finally find the category I want to specialize in.....sigh.

Oh well, I shouldn't jump to conclusions, I guess, but if those are the instructions being given to new "writers" it seems to me that any of the old rating standards are completely unfair. "Rate this merchant, 20 word minimum" deserves an entirely different rating method on our end.

Sigh.

Andrea

[kurt_messick]

Glad I'm not doing things in that category.

[nicholmere]

Originally posted by pluckyduck
"Rate this merchant, 20 word minimum" deserves an entirely different rating method on our end.

Yes and no, maybe maybe not ....

As always we'll rate on how helpful the review was. Size doesn't matter, quality vs quantity and all that good stuff. If someone can give me 20 helpful words on a store, then great - I'd rather read/rate it than a filler review of someone who was trying to meet (is it really that hard?) a 100 word minimum.

Whether the minimum is one word or 100 words, it's still the responsiblity of the reviewer to write everything they think would be helpful to a reader. Twenty words is the minimum, not the maximum so it's not as if EP is forcing the reviewers to be brief, but it does seem like they are opening up the reviewing format to be less detailed.

In the past I've visited sites that encourage brief reviews, MySimon comes to mind, and the information I found there was pretty useless. One or two lines of 'this is cool' or 'this sucks' wasn't helpful at all. Nothing in the "reviews" encouraged me to believe the writer really saw the movie/read the book/bought the product ... etc. I found the whole thing a waste of time and I haven't been back there for ages.

EP tried to attract new members with talk of " Enjoy personalized recommendations on just about anything" and " Get trusted advice to help you make smarter buying decisions". What about a 20 word review would lead you to think you were getting personalized information by someone you could trust?

If I was doing research on EP and all I found were comments 20 words long saying just "I ordered from this store and I got what I wanted", then I'd not be very impressed. I pretty much expect an on-line store to accept orders and deliver the products, in fact I expect anything that can be reviewed on EP to be at least what the manufacturer says it is. It's the personalized, detailed reviews of how the products/services actually performed that is necessary, IMHO, to make a review worth reading.

In a way a 20 word review might as well just be a button "liked" or "didn't like" the service without bothering with the pretense of explaining what you liked or didn't like. EP's PTB have said that EP is not a showcase for writers, I have no problem with that, but I don't think they should encourage a review that is nothing more than a rubber stamp of "yea" or "nay" on a product. And there is certainly no point in rating someone's stamping ability.

For now, I'll continue to rate based on how helpful a review is to me. If EP encourages writers to be so brief as to not provide a lot of detail then EP might as well do away with the rating system (which of course many writers have asked for anyway).

The advantage I see to the 20 word minimum is that a newbie should feel comfortable with signing up to just say how much they hated/liked a store. If as a reader we find that those 20 words were not very helpful then we need to politely and specifically point out what else we'd like to know about the store.

I wonder why EP doesn't think that having different word minimums within different categories is worth mentioning in their Member Center? It would be nice to hear from them their reasoning behind the differences and of any possible plans to change the minimum in other categories.

[amykhar]

does EVERY review of every product or service have to tell the whole story?

I would honestly rather read 100 different short experiences than read 20 longer reviews that tell me what the buttons mean, what I could buy there, etc.

I have to assume with online stores that the really interested parties know what the store sells, and are looking for information on reliability, customer service, quality, etc.

I still say that each review should be rated on its own merit. Some raters look to see what the writer left out. I try to rate based on how much they got in.

Amy

[nicholmere]

Originally posted by amykhar
Epinions has stated that short consumer experiences about online shopping are what online consumers are looking for.

I missed that, when did they say it? It sounds like more guidance on what they want to see on their site than I've heard them offer before.

[amykhar]

It was a letter sent out to editors in that category. I paraphrased it. I believe that's why it's only in effect in that particular category.

Amy

[theeye]

Originally posted by nicholmere


In a way a 20 word review might as well just be a button "liked" or "didn't like" the service without bothering with the pretense of explaining what you liked or didn't like. EP's PTB have said that EP is not a showcase for writers, I have no problem with that, but I don't think they should encourage a review that is nothing more than a rubber stamp of "yea" or "nay" on a product. And there is certainly no point in rating someone's stamping ability.

Actually, I've often thought it would be nice to have two options: a full-review or a quickie thumbs-up or thumbs-down.

A "I really like this product -- bought it a year ago and I still love it" is probably enough for me if it comes from someone I already trust. There are people right here on EA who could convince me to buy something just by saying that. But, of course, they earned that trust with previous more detailed analyses.

And there are plenty of products that I don't review because, frankly, even though I do like them a lot and would strongly recommend them, I just don't think I have enough to say about them (or enough new things to say that haven't been said by 100 other reviewers) to make it worthwhile posting a review.

[nicholmere]

Originally posted by amykhar
does EVERY review of every product or service have to tell the whole story?

For me, yes, pretty much. That's what makes a review worth reading (for me).

Originally posted by amykhar
I would honestly rather read 100 different short experiences than read 20 longer reviews that tell me what the buttons mean, what I could buy there, etc.

I think I use the PROS and CONS section in that way (ie. like the 100 short experiences). If I'm faced with several pages of reviews I'll often see if there are similar pros/cons listed for the product. If if was looking at on-line store reviews and I saw lots of "didn't ship the product" under CONS then I'd start to worry about the reliability of the store. However, the reviews I'd click on to read would have pros/cons that indicated the reviewer also had something more to say. I notice though that the stores category does not include pros and cons in the review format.

Originally posted by amykhar
I have to assume with online stores that the really interested parties know what the store sells, and are looking for information on reliability, customer service, quality, etc.

I tried to use EP to find an on-line store that would deliver a gift basket. It was awfully hard and eventually I gave up and came to EA (Yay EA!) to ask for advice. If you click on the STORES tab from the top of any page you are taken to an alphabetical list of stores, so all I had to go by were the store names in the hopes of finding ones that provided the service I needed. I then figured out that if I selected "ON LINE STORES" from the HOME page then I could chose a category, eg. GIFTS, but that still left me staring at a list of store names I didn't recognize. All the searching/sorting problems are certainly not the fault of the reviewers, but it does mean that a review that includes the details of what the reviewer bought, and what else might be available, would have been helpful to me.

[nicholmere]

Originally posted by amykhar
It was a letter sent out to editors in that category. I paraphrased it. I believe that's why it's only in effect in that particular category.

Amy

There was a thread a while ago where someone was concerned that the editors in on-line stores were ignoring a directive from EP to rate shorter reviews helpful (more paraphrasing by me), but no one (that I remember) ever confirmed that such a directive was given. I've searched for the thread, but I cannot find it, sorry.

So .... there was a letter? Interesting. It is also interesting that it only went to the editors, rather than as a general announcement. I'll bring up a dangerous topic here, but why would EP give editors specific instructions on how to rate given a) the editors earned their hats based on their past rating style (prior to receiving instructions), b) non-editors can rate too so why shouldn't everyone know EP's expectations, c) editors do come and go so what happens after each round? Are the editors who lost their hats supposed to change back to their old style, and are the new editors supposed to now follow the new (somewhat secretive) guidelines? d)If an editor follows EP's letter and rates differently in on-line stores than they do everywhere else, then how will that sit with everyone (the editor, EP, the people who are confused by the editor's different rating styles ....).

[pluckyduck]

Well, I'm once again less-than-happy. When were the planning on telling people about the changes in online services for crying out loud? I've rated hundreds and hundreds of reviews in online stores in the last month and a half, two months.

There have been tons of newbies writing in online stores and they have been getting killed in the ratings. Frankly, I got tired of doing the clean up comments "Welcome to Epinions! You've got a great start here....." yada yada. No one, editors or common man (me) has been rating online stores any differently than any other category....which means there have been tons of SHs and plenty of NHs. I've often found myself the high rater on short Epinions. I thought I was being easy.

I really am jinxed. All of that rating and it was wrong.

FWIW, I disagree with a 20 word minimum for online stores. I think you need more words to put your shopping experience in the proper context to be at least helpful....but it certainly would be helpful if Epinions lets the people who are rating have a clue that this category is different.

Andrea
who will be staying far away from online stores

[frazzledspice]

I have really enjoyed writing online store reviews in the past, but I don't think there's any way I could really say what I want to say in 20 words.

Or find out about a place I wanted to visit in 20 words.

But my main gripe about Online Stores continues to be that the stores I use aren't listed.

Is there a Muse system? I may check again.

[Master_Griffin]

That's interesting that consumers prefer a really short "review" of online services. Even just saying, "I bought x at z store. It was $abc and the customer service was great. I would go back to this store..." or something to that effect isn't worthy of a VH rating.

Personally, I wouldn't rate any of these "mini-reviews" more than a SH. Maybe I'm stingy but oh well.

I was really surprised by this change to a 20 word minimum. Twenty words can't adequatly describe a store and whether it warrants a consumers business.

Interesting topic. I enjoyed reading everyones responses. See ya'll around!

- Tim

[shadow8]

Sometimes it is probably more appropriate to write shorter reviews of certain products or services -- on-line shopping services for example. I don't think people can expect a lot of detail when reading reviews of on-line services.

On the other hand, a 20 word minimum does seem a bit, well, fruitless. It is possible to write a review with 20 words, but can a person write a well-written review which answers all the necessary questions in just 20 words?

[nicholmere]

Originally posted by pluckyduck
I really am jinxed. All of that rating and it was wrong.

I do not think that a rating can be wrong, it can be different than the rest of the pack - harsher, softer, ... etc., but not wrong. You've always been rating, presumably, based on how helpful you found the review. If a reviewer interpreted the 20 word minimum has a 20 word maximum, but you still needed to see more information about a store then I think you are right to rate and comment accordingly.

EP may have sent a letter telling on-line store editors what they think on-line customers want, but ... um ... does EP always know what the on-line community really wants?

I don't think there will ever be an agreement on what the perfect length is for a review - everyone needs different product/service information. Fortunately, every EP member is entitled to press whichever rating button they consider appropriate. As long as one is rating based on the question EP currently asks "How helpful was this review in making a decision?" I think we'll be fine.

Theeye's suggestion of having mini-reviews is interesting. In a way that is somewhat like the previous "products rated" feature. I *think* The only way to know who rated a producted and what their rating was was to stumble across it on their profile page. However, if EP was able to provide a list of not only reviews by X members, but also rated by X members, with a list of the raters' names and the rating, that might be helpful.

[jo.com]

Someone wrote a 20 word review (not a newbie) on an online service to prove a point. That was last week when I heard about this. It is only for online services, but I can't understand why. We can do the same about anything:

my toaster:

I like it, it looks good, it is easy to clean, I haven't gotten electrocuted by it, the warranty is like all the others - 1 year limited, no need to deal with customer service, it was on sale- $20 instead of $22.50 and it has a bake, broil and self clean option. Gosh that's 50 words. Can you imagine 20. What the heck am I doing spending 1 hour writing reviews for..Well that's the question I have been asking myself for months now!