Loaded gun finally found in carry-on luggage

theeye · #1 12-29-2001, 08:12 PM

Quote:

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) -- Authorities said a Florida man who was arrested with a loaded 9mm semiautomatic pistol in his carry-on luggage had already boarded two flights before the gun was found.

kurt_messick · #2 12-29-2001, 09:26 PM

Why don't we issue everyone a gun upon boarding the plane?

And flammable shoes?

And mace?

And box cutters?

And no one is allowed to fly without a bomb in her or his checked baggage.

theeye · #3 12-31-2001, 01:07 AM

Quote:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- A transportation safety consultant charged with trying to board a flight with a concealed 9 mm Beretta says he forgot the loaded gun was in his briefcase.

Barry Brunstein, 55, of Tampa, Fla., said he took the weapon with him on a business trip to Orlando, Fla., on Dec. 18 , checked into a hotel, put the gun in his briefcase and didn't use either the weapon or case again until his trip to Memphis, Tenn.

``It was the handiest place to put it. I never gave the gun a second thought,'' he said in an interview Sunday.

Why am I not happy about someone who could "forget" about a loaded gun in his briefcase?

poseidon · #4 12-31-2001, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theeye

Why am I not happy about someone who could "forget" about a loaded gun in his briefcase?

Honesty check here...

Would you be any less happy with a person who could "forget" about an unloaded gun in his briefcase?

theeye · #5 12-31-2001, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by poseidon

Honesty check here...

Would you be any less happy with a person who could "forget" about an unloaded gun in his briefcase?

I'm not sure I can properly parse that question. You're asking if I'd be less happy with someone who forgets an unloaded gun than with someone who forgets a loaded gun?

If that's the question, then the answer is no: the absent-minded possessor of an unloaded gun does not make me even more unhappy than the actual case.

But why is that an interesting question?

poseidon · #6 12-31-2001, 12:47 PM

It's an interesting question only because you cite that forgetting a loaded gun is somehow different than forgetting a gun whether loaded or not. Although I meant to imply if you would be more happy if the gun were unloaded versus the gun being loaded (sorry about that).

If it were me, I would have just phrased the question about forgetting a gun in carry-on luggage. What difference does it make if it's loaded or not? Loading a gun can take less than a second to over a minute depending on what kind of firearm you're talking about, and since a majority of them are in the "less than a second" category, it doesn't really make a difference.

theeye · #7 12-31-2001, 12:55 PM

Ok, I'd be amazed if someone forgot that they had a disassembled weapon in their carry on luggage.

I'd be slightly more amazed if someone forgot an assembled weapon, sans ammunition, in said luggage.

I'd be slightly more amazed if someone forgot an assembled weapon in a carry on bag, with ammunition stashed in the outside zipped pocket.

I'd be slightly more amazed if someone forgot a loaded weapon.

I fail to see how any of those statements bears at all on my honesty. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #8 12-31-2001, 01:03 PM

If someone forgot about an unloaded gun in his briefcase, took the case home and his child found and played with the gun, we'd all call him an idiot.

If a guy forgot about a loaded gun in his briefcase, took it home and his child found and played with that gun, we'd probably call him a mourner.

I am far more concerned with someone "forgetting" a loaded weapon .

Cindy

poseidon · #9 12-31-2001, 01:08 PM

The honesty check was to see if you would be any less upset if the gun were loaded or not... nothing more.

As far as transport goes, I'd only show a change in attitude from a totally disassembled gun to an assembled gun. Why?

Disassembled guns are totally legal to transport via the airlines. You do, however, have to declare it at the check-in counter and cannot be carried on as far as I'm aware.

Some long guns are allowed to be assembled but have to be locked open so that a bullet cannot be chambered. But again, these have to be checked in at the front counter and cannot be carried-on as far as I am aware.

I would think that it would be rather absent-minded to either:

a. forget that you have a gun on your person or in close reach
b. forget to tell the airline that you've got a gun that you're getting ready to transport, especially after 9/11.

If I had a gun in my briefcase, I'd keep it unloaded but you can be sure that the ammo would either be in a clip in the holster or in a clip in the gun (it's still unloaded if it's in the clip and not chambered into the gun itself). I transport guns in my vehicle all the time in an unloaded state, been pulled over, and have had no problem with the police (of course, when I've got a gun in the car, I drive around Denver as it is a pain in the butt to deal with their anti-gun mentality there and the hoops they make you jump through).

poseidon · #10 12-31-2001, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hadassahchana
If someone forgot about an unloaded gun in his briefcase, took the case home and his child found and played with the gun, we'd all call him an idiot.

If a guy forgot about a loaded gun in his briefcase, took it home and his child found and played with that gun, we'd probably call him a mourner.

I am far more concerned with someone "forgetting" a loaded weapon .

Cindy

So if someone forgot an unloaded weapon, yet you had no idea that it was loaded or not, that would bother you less?

jenninca · #11 12-31-2001, 01:13 PM

Oh jeez! What does it matter how much different variations of this scenario bothers each person?

theeye · #12 12-31-2001, 01:14 PM

The question still seems less than scintillatingly interesting to me and I remain (in this context) unconcerned about whether or not I am being "honest".

As for:

Quote:

I would think that it would be rather absent-minded to either:

a. forget that you have a gun on your person or in close reach
b. forget to tell the airline that you've got a gun that you're getting ready to transport, especially after 9/11.

I presume that your use of "absent-minded" is as sarcastic as mine was. I would think that either behavior would be monumentally stupid and probably criminally negligent.

poseidon · #13 12-31-2001, 01:37 PM

Yes... I am definitely being sarcastic about the term "absent-minded." Either that person is too stupid to safely own a firearm or there was some predetermined attempt to skip the security check (which would fall under criminal intent). Maybe he was paranoid or thought that he couldn't legally transport his gun so he tried to get around security... who knows?

If it were me, I would be worried equally whether or not the gun were loaded -- simply because by looking at a gun you cannot tell if it's loaded or not unless it is totally disassembled. The only way to tell is to open the chamber and see if there is a bullet inside or not. Thus, I wouldn't say "loaded" gun or "unloaded" gun.

**drmomentum**[$] · #14 12-31-2001, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poseidon
Thus, I wouldn't say "loaded" gun or "unloaded" gun.

Everything you say is true, about not being able to easily determine from casual observation whether a gun is loaded or not. Even so, there is a difference between a loaded gun and an unloaded gun, once that information has been verified.

An unverified gun should be treated as loaded - that's clear. But you shouldn't treat a verified loaded gun like an unloaded gun, and you shouldn't treat a verified unloaded gun like a loaded one. That alone makes it obvious enough that there is a difference. And that difference has nothing to do with honesty.

Would you try to defend your life with an unloaded gun?

-JP

poseidon · #15 12-31-2001, 04:05 PM

JP,

While this is going off-topic, you're completely incorrect in your assertion that a verified unloaded gun shouldn't be treated in the same manner as a verified loaded gun. That's a violation of the first rule of gun safety which is to treat every gun as if it were loaded, even when you know that it isn't.

Depending on the situation, I might very well try to defend my life with an unloaded gun, although that wouldn't be my first choice. What people fail to read in the paper or see on the news is that there are thousands and thousands of situations where gun owners haven't needed to fire a single shot in order to save themselves -- they've only had to brandish the weapon.

Given the choice, I'd rather have bullets or lead shot to back up my threat, but yeah, I could use the gun to try and save my life even if unloaded.

Jeff

cristina1 · #16 01-01-2002, 11:39 AM

Wow, what a turn this thread took!

This guy has a few screws loose. Or he is full of it. I just cant imagine sticking a gun in your briefcase and forgetting about it. Loading it and forgetting about it does make it worse.

The difference between a loaded gun and unloaded gun- Of course there is a difference. Sure, you should treat any gun as loaded, but the reason is because of that difference. A loaded gun is far more dangerous.

If you were using an unloaded gun to defend yourself (which I could see if you were grasping for options - bluffing comes in handy sometimes) and the theif somehow managed to obtain the weapon from you, the difference between loaded and unloaded guns come into play again.

But anyhow, because it has already been verified for us in this case that the gun was loaded, we can make a comment pointing out the gun was loaded without compromising our honesty. Even the headline specified the man forgot a loaded gun.

#17 01-01-2002, 12:46 PM

Why should "the terrorists" worry about a follow-up plan when we're driving ourselves insane. It'll get worse... there's too many insane people out there on the streets, turned loose by the Reagan administration and following mental health services cutbacks over the years. Plus, with stress and depression running rampant in the working classes, you'll get all sorts of crazy-assed behavior creeping aboard planes while the useless "security" companies turn a blind eye.

The machines that will be deployed will be hyped up to be the end-all solution, and yet they will turn out to be as inaccurate as the vaunted Patriot missile defense systems were during the Gulf War.

**drmomentum**[$] · #18 01-01-2002, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poseidon
JP,

While this is going off-topic, you're completely incorrect in your assertion that a verified unloaded gun shouldn't be treated in the same manner as a verified loaded gun.

Would you go target shooting with a verified unloaded gun? Would you try to hunt with a verified unloaded gun? Would you try to defend your life with a verified unloaded gun? Would you send soldiers into combat with verified unloaded guns? Would you try to unload a gun you had just verified is already unloaded?

The suggestion is ridiculous. The suggestion that they should be treated in the same manner is ridiculous.

I agree that an unknown gun should be treated as loaded.
I agree that there are certain things you shouldn't do with *any*gun even if it's verified unloaded (point it at your own head in play, for example) for various reasons.

Rules are great, but no matter what the first rule is, there are differences between loaded guns and unloaded ones.

-JP