Editors without soul

kuuleimomi · #1 01-06-2002, 06:34 PM

I bet we all come across newbies on eps, aye?

They often don't have names up there. They don't have short/long bio. They wrote only one review. First review... they had chosen something special for their first review and unfortunately wrote only one paragraph. What you do?

Today I saw the most disgusting picture: one paragraph on topic and basically with good thoughts in my favorite category. Two of my favorite editors-reviewers rated the review NH, left no comments and just bailed on that guy/girl. How? Why? It was clearly SH, at some point it was even H, just not according to Eps standards.

Now, imagine that person. Maybe he/she even read all the reviews [all three] on that album and saw some of them were short and lacking some information. He/she adds that information in a nice way, receives two NH from Editors with no explanation and what now? How high is the entry bareer on Epinions? Is there Editors or just Readers with soul left? Rhetoric questions.

Once again, I ask people not to bail on the newbies, not to rate on-topic reviews NH with no reason whatsoever. If you don't have time to stop and explain why you do certain things, maybe the best way to leave without doing those things?

Finn

wivabef · #2 01-06-2002, 06:44 PM

I absolutely agree with you. I have been finding myself leaving comments apologizing to newbies for having been NH'd by an editor without any explanation for the rating. And several times I have run into first or second time reviews with several editors SH'ing and I really think that if they want to keep that hat, they should leave a basic comment. Heck, they can even keep it on their clip board and cut and paste it if they find themselves doing it over and over again. But something these people have to remember is the new people are completely unaware of the workings of the site.

No wonder so many have been drawn to the Dark Side of Epinions -- it is oftentimes far more welcoming than the supposed bright stars. At least you don't find the "slobs" plowing through Just In and stamping short website reviews with an NH and not explaining themselves.

I wouldn't want to be an editor -- I think the title requires extra time and effort and compassion. And there are many editors who I think honor this title. But too many have become automatrons.

kurt_messick · #3 01-06-2002, 07:15 PM

When I was an editor, I was very careful to comment on newbies, especially if I rated them less than VH.

Now that I'm no longer an editor, I refuse to rate newbies down. Even the abusive ones. I'll simply back out. I hate the feeling, but it really is no longer my job. And I'll get no help in case of retaliation.

But I do hate the idea of not commenting when giving a poor rating (save in the most obvious, a a a a a a a a a a a situations).

mtbat · #4 01-06-2002, 11:09 PM

I have to disagree. SH and NH are subjective. and how anyone rates is their buisness. If they find a one paragraph review NH regardless of who does it, then they have the right to rate how they see it.

As for leaving comments. I've left tons of comments-nice ones on newbie reviews and either been attacked, or ignored-so why bother? after a while, when you have to plow through page after page after page after page of badly writen 1/2 arshed reviews-it gets frustrating. Being "new" really isn't a great excuse.

If someone updates and lets me know NICELY then chances are I'll up a rating-but don't expect me to leave a comment just because someone is new, or give an SH where I feel an NH is deserved. We all have difference of opinions.

And I'm not an Editor, just a run of the mill reader/writer.

wivabef · #5 01-07-2002, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtbat
I have to disagree. SH and NH are subjective. and how anyone rates is their buisness. If they find a one paragraph review NH regardless of who does it, then they have the right to rate how they see it.

As for leaving comments. I've left tons of comments-nice ones on newbie reviews and either been attacked, or ignored-so why bother? after a while, when you have to plow through page after page after page after page of badly writen 1/2 arshed reviews-it gets frustrating. Being "new" really isn't a great excuse.

If someone updates and lets me know NICELY then chances are I'll up a rating-but don't expect me to leave a comment just because someone is new, or give an SH where I feel an NH is deserved. We all have difference of opinions.

And I'm not an Editor, just a run of the mill reader/writer.

I agree with you. But you're not an editor. I feel if you're going to wear the editor hat and get your button pushed, you should help new people along -- especially in the now very confusing on-line stores section which now implores people to be brief, suggesting a 20 word minimum. Then, when they are brief, a bunch of editors come in and nail them with NH's and SH's and don't explain why, even though the newbie is doing exactly what they are told to do, they are getting down-rated.

In many of these reviews, you can see the people have put some real thought into the review, trying to cram as much info in while being "brief" -- there is a melee of confusion over there now, and I think it would be nice if editors and top reviewers, the people epinions points to as trusted advisors to other members, would simply explain their actions.

shadow8 · #6 01-07-2002, 09:43 PM

Regardless of whether one is an editor or not, (s)he should leave a comment if (s)he gives an SH or lower on a review. Why? It can only help the reviewer improve his/her writing. But this should only be the case if the reviewer actually put forth the effort (not talking about those asinine a a a a reviews of course).

However, I also understand if someone does not want to leave a comment after giving a low rating. It is his/her right to do so. But leaving a comment can't hurt. If the reviewer replies in a nasty fashion to the comment a person has made, well then it ain't your fault--you tried.

**Joubert**[$] · #7 01-07-2002, 10:33 PM

No one is required to leave a comment anywhere. Is it nice to do so? Sure. We've had this discussion at least 20 times on this board in the last year.

Those who rate accurately and do not leave comments (for whatever reason) should not be castigated by those who do frequently comment.

Those who leave comments are often very appreciated by those who receive them.

To each his own.

jnbmoore · #8 01-07-2002, 11:46 PM

and then you also have folks who make it so aggrevating you just don't want to leave a comment....

Example:

Read a review in a catagory I've got a funny hat for. Rated it SH and left a long comment about needing more than plot summary, checking out VH reviews and reviews by top reviewers (gave their names -- think I used quasar, grouch, and gracef this time) offered to reread and rerate.. standard long comment.

Go to my hotmail account and find:

You have rated my review on XXXXXXXX on epinions.com SH. Why?
Did it not tell you what the story was about? Did I not tell you when, where, what and how still without giving away too much of the hype? Explain.

I write back "check your comment section. I left a comment right after I rated:"

His response:

yeah i read your comment but it wasn't helpful at all. explain.

Oh, and his blurb says: Dislikes: "people that just don't get it"

I'm restraining my self so I don't get nasty..................

And some may not understand why comments aren't always left....

Bridgette

wivabef · #9 01-08-2002, 12:24 AM

But don't give up, Bridgette! Because there are those people who respond and appreciate your experience!

I honestly think that editors and TR's could have a form letter in their PC's or Mac's harddrive that they can cut and paste from for many of the reviews, altering it for specifics.

frazzledspice · #10 01-08-2002, 01:45 AM

I think that many times editors, and members in general, don't look to see how many epinions the writer has submitted before making their decision. Particularly if they are going through the just-in's and trying to rate every single one.

I almost never give less than an SH, but I don't leave that many comments to strangers. When I do, it may be to recommend a product or service I like better, or to offer some solution to a person's problem. (Since I'm an editor in online stores and personal finance, my categories might lend themselves more to that.)

I don't look at myself as a writing coach, just as someone who's trying to be objective.

laura10801 · #11 01-08-2002, 10:54 AM

I have to admit, it depends on my mood. I try to leave comments for newbies I gave a SH to, but sometimes I just don't feel like it. I will usually force myself to leave a comment even if I don't feel like it if no one has commented already, but if people have already left comments I don't see how mine is going to make much difference.

Laura

PS: I thought that part of the criterian for being an editor is leaving comments...oh, that's right, we're talking about Epinions' guidelines and they generally ignore their own guidelines.

jnbmoore · #12 01-08-2002, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wivabef
But don't give up, Bridgette! Because there are those people who respond and appreciate your experience!

In the past two months I've received ONE email asking for a rerate from someone who got an SH/NH.. .and the message above

The bulk of my emails are "You gave me an H. How dare you! Why???" Usually when I give reasons -- I sometimes check out the reasons with others and they seem valid to them too -- I'm told "that's not good enough"

Then again a major rubberstamper recently told me that he/she/it will no longer read me not due to my ratings on his/her/its stuff, but because he/she/it isn't interested in anything I write about......

But that's about the only responses I get...

Bridgette

wivabef · #13 01-08-2002, 12:09 PM

Laura -- I agree with you about not leaving a comment if you're just saying "ditto".

Bridgette -- I am so sorry for how those people responded.

I must say that my experience has been the opposite. On one occasion Tipu redirected me to a review I had rated as only SH, noting the writer had done a massive rewrite that brought it up to a VH. It was a wonderful gesture that I am sure the writer appreciated -- and I am sure Tipu was pleased with the response from the returning raters.

And in another occasion, I responded to several editors that someone new had rewritten a review on a gift book. All of the editors returned, two rerated.

This is recent history, too, November.

I am not discounting your experience. The people writing you are egocentric and rude. But I'm hoping you'll stumble on that one newbie that makes it all worthwhile.

jkkelley · #14 01-08-2002, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jnbmoore
and then you also have folks who make it so aggrevating you just don't want to leave a comment....

You mean when you get a mail like this?:

"fuck u fuckin fat ass faggot motherfucker,i saw what u rated my reveiw on epinions.con,u can suck my dogs dick,oh nevermind,he deserves better!!u fuckin fat faggot fuck u ,watch im gonna hakc into your account and detstroy all of your reveiws motherfucker,fuck u!!!!!!"

I was elated. My first real hate mail! I'm finally sure I'm doing something right at Epinions. If I'd known that giving NHs to truly steak smoking reviews would so deeply annoy the cretins, imbeciles and dolts of the world, I'd have been more enthusiastic about it.

jkk

**hadassahchana**[$] · #15 01-08-2002, 07:19 PM

Quote:

If I'd known that giving NHs to truly steak smoking reviews would so deeply annoy the cretins, imbeciles and dolts of the world, I'd have been more enthusiastic about it.

Jonathon, I love you!

Cindy laughs maniacally

jsgoddess · #16 01-08-2002, 09:34 PM

I tend to be a leaver of comments, often really dorky ones that make me seem perky. If someone has a low number of reviews and I'm rating them SH, I nearly always leave a comment if there are fewer than three. (This is just the ratio I've come up with.)

If someone has a large number of reviews and the one I just read was an SH, I often will not leave a comment. Occasionally, I'll leave a comment like: "You've been here a while, so I'm sure you've already been bombarded with this, but on the off-chance I'm being helpful: You need more detail in your review..."

Other than a rather horrible run in last year sometime when I rated a disguised review highly, I've never received an unpleasant email due to Epinions. Just today I got a lovely email from a newcomer who thanked me for my "constructive comment" and asked me if her rewritten Epinion was improved.

It made me all warm and fuzzy--like steroids.

You should read the hatemail I get when I critique poetry, though.

People sometimes ask on EA why those who love to read and rate do so. What they don't understand is that I've been doing nearly the same thing online for five or six years, reading and rating poetry--giving feedback that could either help the poet or piss her off, depending on her proclivities. At Epinions, I can remember one nasty email. From poetry forums, I have a collection of hundreds. And no poetry forum has ever paid me even pennies!

Woo!

Julie