Seeking Input Regarding Links and EA

**amykhar** · #1 06-04-2001, 11:41 AM

EA has had a policy that links to reviews should be contained to the Just In Forum since the day we opened.

This rule has been in place because many of our members hated stumbling over the "read me!" links that were starting to dominate on Yahoo. We wanted a link-free place to chat with fellow writers and discuss Epinions.

In addition, we wanted to avoid some of the trolls who would show up on the boards, pick a fight, write an editorial about the fight and then post a link to the review on the board. Some people learned that flaming was the best way to make a few bucks off the boards.

However, quite often, I would like to be able to discuss reviews with you all. Sometimes, somebody writes something that just begs to be discussed at length. In addition, sometimes people ask questions that a link to a review would easily answer.

Thus, my question to you is this: How do you feel about review links on the boards? Feel free to add in free form answers if the poll questions don't quite hit your feelings on the matter.

I am NOT saying that this is a decisive vote, or that anything will necessarily change. I am basically looking for feedback as an opening to a discussion with the team on the matter.

magenta321 · #2 06-04-2001, 12:00 PM

Just an idea, but perhaps you could open the rules a bit for the "writer's help forum." Then people could post links and discusss their reviews.

**soxfan**[$] · #3 06-04-2001, 12:55 PM

Off the top of my head, I like the Just In subforum idea best. That way there's one place for folks to post and discuss reviews.

Ailsa

nicholmere · #4 06-04-2001, 01:12 PM

I chose: "Add a subforum to Just In that would allow discussion of new and old reviews"

I like the, I read it you should too, subforum. I view it as a review specific type of New and Noteworthy. Perhaps people could be encouraged to reply to/discuss the posts. The same 'be nice' rules, of course, would apply.

I also like the idea of discussing reviews in the Writer's Help Forum. However, while some writers want/need feedback on their entire review, I'd hate to see a general "read this and tell me what you think" type of post. Usually a writer has a specific question about their review, so maybe the forum should be left linkless, but writers could be encouraged to post the sentence/paragraph in question.

mnehr · #5 06-04-2001, 01:55 PM

I also would like a subforum. As the old saying goes, two eyes are better than one, and it would be great to have a way where we can comment on what changes we would make or ask for editing help from those who may be interested.
It will be a place where we can work together to make our reviews better, and those who do not like it, do not have to go to the subforum.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #6 06-04-2001, 02:12 PM

I chose the "Post all links and damn the spammers!" option. I can ignore almost anything, and if I am interested, I might actually enjoy clicking on a link to see what is going on.

From the way that those who are only here to increase their hits seem to disappear, I'd guess that being allowed to post a few links here and there really won't hold their interest any longer than anything else might- so, IMO, no harm in allowing it- or at least giving it a trial .

Cindy

eplovejoy · #7 06-04-2001, 03:28 PM

I'm with Cindy. Well, that is to say I agree with her.

No one is forced to follow a link they don't want to. And sometimes people have interesting reasons for wanting to post a link where it's not allowed now.

If it doesn't overwhelm the board's technical capacities or create problems for Amy or any of the others who handle EA's mechanics, it seems that allowing people to post threads where they see fit should work.

And if opening things up leads to abuse, it should be pretty easy to close them back up again, right?

**amykhar** · #8 06-04-2001, 04:08 PM

Quick question for those who would like links allowed everywhere. Were you members of the Yahoo boards back in their hey day?

It used to be almost impossible to follow conversations because every other post was somebody spamming the board with a link. A good percentage of the members never said anything besides "Hi! Here' my 3 for the day! Thanks for Reading and Rating" ugh.

Although part of an Epinions board should certainly be to help members get some visibility, EA has always tried to focus on conversation, friendship, and community.

Quite frankly, many members find it annoying when people show up ONLY to post links. Could we maintain a true community feeling and not have the board degenerate into the cesspool that Yahoo became without having to moderate the hell out of every other post?

Amy

KristenNC · #9 06-04-2001, 05:20 PM

I guess I remember the Yahoo! board, even though I wasn't active there... but I can't tell you how annoyed I am with...

Well, it's Monday and I've written a review!
---------------------------------------------------------

Come and read about Why I like Gillette Shaving Cream and I promise I'll hit your latest too!

Or...

---------------------
I know this thread is about forced female circumcision in Uganda, but I wanted you all to know that I've written a really wonderful epinion on the joys of scrapbooking that I know you'd like to read. It's at http://www.epinions.com.1234322.imanadvisor - check it out!

____________________________________________________

I'm casting my vote to keeping URLs in Just In (or a similar contained space) forever.

Just wanted you all to know that.

Kristen (who isn't even on epinions, so you have to wonder why I care so much....)

**pluckyduck** · #10 06-04-2001, 05:23 PM

Hi!

Just posted a new review on Flaming Lime Liquor! Thanks to all who read and rate!

Http://readmereadme.epinions/content-757529852

Andrea

mtbat · #11 06-04-2001, 05:38 PM

I think some subforums linked to areas like the writers help forum, the just in, and a few others would be a good idea. I don't think that allowing links in every forum everywhere would be a good thing-I wasn't a member of the old yahoo! board, but I can see where it would become a royal pain in the patootie to have links everywhere.

fridai

**pluckyduck** · #12 06-04-2001, 06:29 PM

Hey! I just wrote another one!

"How you too can make mega bucks at Epinions!"

http://amiannoyingyouyet.epinions.com/content-666666666

Thanks to all who read and rate!

Andrea

**amykhar** · #13 06-04-2001, 06:50 PM

You all are idiots! I wrote a review about it:

http://spam.epinions.com/content-you-suck

Amy

**hadassahchana**[$] · #14 06-04-2001, 06:56 PM

Ok, ok, I get the point!

I do remember the yahoo board- but there is a big difference here.

We have separate forums, so it seems to me that if someone came flying in only to spam a forum with a post which didn't follow the conversation which was already taking place, it would be relatively easy to remove both the post and the poster.

I do like the atmosphere of this board- but I can't see it changing that much just because of having links posted, especially if they were used to make a point.

Now- can someone please tell me what Mobi just said??

Cindy

**pluckyduck** · #15 06-04-2001, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hadassahchana
Ok, ok, I get the point!

I do remember the yahoo board- but there is a big difference here.

We have separate forums, so it seems to me that if someone came flying in only to spam a forum with a post which didn't follow the conversation which was already taking place, it would be relatively easy to remove both the post and the poster.

I do like the atmosphere of this board- but I can't see it changing that much just because of having links posted, especially if they were used to make a point.

Now- can someone please tell me what Mobi just said??

Cindy

Oh, Amy and I have always harbored a secret desire to behave badly, so this thread was just an excuse.

The reason the spammers leave this board alone is because we're able to thwart any initial spam attempts with clear cut rules.

Many more times than once, a new person has joined the board thinking this was a great place to just spread as many links as possible around. You guys would have barely known about it, because a mod or an admin has gone in quickly and cleaned all of the stuff out, emailed the new member in a friendly "hey, maybe you didn't understand" fashion... Usually, a spammer doesn't come back. ( I remember this one guy emailed me back " Oh, I give up. You're taking the links out as fast as I put them up.")

Now, personally, I'd like to see us have links in more than Just In...but I'm not sure how to accomplish it without having the spammers come out of the woodwork.

It would make perfect sense, in the context of a conversation in the gourmet forum for instance, to make reference to a review that you've written on "Black Truffle Oil" or whatever, if the subject matter of the thread was "Black Truffle Oil".

How do we get the advantage of that kind of contextual link, without having the gratuitous spreading of all kinds of "advertising" all over the board, that's the question that stumps me.

Andrea
who can't tell you what Mobi said, sorry

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #16 06-04-2001, 08:27 PM

I like things the way they are (hope I'm not ruining my carefully honed rep as a constantly dissatisfied-with-the-status-quo whiner).

If we are going to have links, I'd be happiest if they were neatly contained in a single sub-forum of Just In.

The problem I see with letting people post links to their Black Truffle Oil reviews in the middle of a Black Truffle Oil discussion is that it could lead to various kinds of insincerity -- people engaging in the discussion only so that they could slip their links in; people putting in only marginally relevant links, say Black Truffle Oil links in a discussion that's really primarily about Red Cider Vinegar.

I'm spending a lot more time on EpinionAddicts these days than I am on Epinions itself, and a big part of that is that I'm tired of all the self-promotion on the mothersite -- the whole atmosphere that self-promotion creates. I feel that for the most part, people post here at EA because they have something to say -- which means that what they write is worth reading. That's much less true when people have an ulterior motive (trying to get hits on their reviews), and I think allowing links everywhere would encourage people to post ads thinly disguised as discussion -- and that's not good for the discussion.

**pluckyduck** · #17 06-04-2001, 08:44 PM

Yes, wise Auntie, that's the problem. (Can't quote your whole message, I refer to it all, see above.)

Yet, aren't we depriving ourselves of the opportunity to enrich our conversations with references to appropriate Epinions??? The very thing that drew us together??

I'm just completely clueless as how to do it.

Feh.

Andrea
searching for that thinking cap she left somewhere

**slick4591**[$] · #18 06-04-2001, 11:26 PM

I don't see a good way to do it, Duck. I voted for things to stay the same because I'm a crotchety old fart and hate change.

Or, maybe I'm still jealous of the I Love Lucy show. I dunno.

By the way, my latest is only 6 months old, but I had YOU in mind when I wrote it. Just go to http://www.imacrotheyoldfart.com/content-

jenninca · #19 06-05-2001, 07:40 AM

Amy said: "Could we maintain a true community feeling and not have the board degenerate into the cesspool that Yahoo became without having to moderate the hell out of every other post?"

and Auntie said: "The problem I see with letting people post links to their Black Truffle Oil reviews in the middle of a Black Truffle Oil discussion is that it could lead to various kinds of insincerity -- people engaging in the discussion only so that they could slip their links in; people putting in only marginally relevant links, say Black Truffle Oil links in a discussion that's really primarily about Red Cider Vinegar."

I've seen some links lately around here--in The Cafe, in Writer's Help, etc. They've been to profiles and to specific reviews. And to be completely honest, they've annoyed me. If I want to read someone's Black Truffle Oil review, I'll go to the just in page and see what's there. I agree with AuntieEmma in that the ability to post links could very easily lead to insincerity.

I don't hang around at any other Epinions boards much at all. I like the people here the best, but I like the atmosphere here too. By not allowing many links here, I know that the people here are here because they seriously want to talk, and not just about Epinions. By allowing links anywhere, I think we'll start attracting the "Hey, it's Monday and I watched a video. Want to read about the video I watched? Click here! Did you watch a video today?" types. And that would really annoy me. I'd rather get to know people without worrying about their hidden promotional agenda.

Cindy

sylvanb · #20 06-05-2001, 10:26 AM

Subforum strikes me as the best of both worlds. Keeps the links accessible but contained.

**amykhar** · #21 06-06-2001, 10:32 PM

I tend to agree with sylvanb, and we have modified the Just In subforum to allow review discussions.

Because we really don't want to turn EA into another click circle, there will be a zero spam tolerance level in there.

I define spam as posts such as "This review hasn't got enough reads, please show it some love"

and

"Here's my 3 for the day! What do you think?"

I REALLY want to see this forum survive. Therefore, we are going to utilize a tool that this board offers. Spamming will be PROMPTLY deleted and repeat offenders will no longer be able to post in either just in forum.

What do you all think about this setup? Realize that it is a compromize at best. We want to keep EA focused on discussion and socialization - not marketing and promotion.

Amy

**hadassahchana**[$] · #22 06-06-2001, 10:45 PM

Amy,

After I had time to think about it a bit, i decided to change my vote. Fortunately, you read my mind, and arranged the new forum just the way I wanted. You are clever.

I remembered that occasionally, someone will come in here and claim that for whatever reason, they are being persecuted, ignored, etc. I always step into my Superman cape and fly off in search of someone who needs help- and usually discover that either the person or the review in question has not been slammed in the ratings/ignored/spammed with nasty comments. Right about then, I realize that I've been had yet again.

I am really hoping that enforicng those rules will prevent crap like this from becoming an everyday occurence.

Cindy