Is Reporting This Fact Really Necessary?

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2002...bodies_dc.html

This is about the 6 police officers that were found in the WTC1 rubble.

Is it really necessary to mention that the woman they were trying to rescue was "obese"? If she looked anorexic, would they have said "anorexic" woman?

Sheesh!

[vania]

My only guess is that maybe they thought it might justify the fact that 6 policeman were helping her.

[mrisch[$]]

I thought about this as well. Imagine how the family will feel when they are notified.

On the other hand, this story hit me as much as any I have heard or read. These officers were there helping someone who apparently couldn't help herself, and knowing what they were doing and how is an important fact - how would we feel to hear they found her alone and abandoned in time of need?

A tough issue, either way.

[eplovejoy]

There's no reason to mention the woman's weight. The unfortunate suggestion is: Fatty to blame for firefighters' deaths.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

I agree. Although I guess they could have pussy-footed around with it and said "a woman with limited mobility," but then families of those who were handicapped and worked at the WTC might read it and sit by their phones waiting for a call saying their family member was found.

I felt a little bad as I read it, but it is a major descriptive characteristic and does explain why it took so many officers. (Kinda reminds me of the "do you describe people by using the word 'black' " thread.)

mj

[wivabef]

Also, they are assuming that all six rescuers were carrying her down in the rescue chair.

When you find debris thousands of feet away from the site there's no telling what the real story is.

I think it's especially crass because before they even bother to identify her by name they identify her by size.

That fact was not necessary. AP didn't use it. Neither did the Daily News.

[mtbat]

as harsh as this might sound, I don't think that they were wrong in reporting that the woman was "obese". her weight obviously caused the deaths of 6 officers, had she NOT been "obese" perhaps 5 of those officers would be alive today.

There are a lot of things that don't need to be reported, that I will agree on. But the simple fact of the matter is that this woman's weight was the cause of multiple deaths.

And before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I'm a good 60lb overweight, teetering on the brink of what is concidered Obese. I think I'll print out a copy of that story and paste it on my fridge as modivation to stay on my diet.

Fridai

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Originally posted by wivabef
That fact was not necessary. AP didn't use it. Neither did the Daily News.

NY Times said "obese." And while they were able to identify the officers by their uniforms, they might not have been able to positively ID the woman, or they might not have contacted the family yet, or the family may have requested annonymity.

mj

Is it more important to rescue one obese person or two or three normal-sized incapacitated people?

[realtraveller]

Sorry, folks, I want ALL the pertinent facts in my news and to my mind, this is pertinent. It explains why the woman needed a rescue chair. If she were elderly, one-legged, hugely pregnant, or whatever, it explains why she couldn't help herself and why five people sacrificed their lives trying to save her.

Hopefully it will motivate some people to exercise more and eat less so they don't end up in similar circumstances some day.

[kurt_messick]

I think given the quick turn-around time and lack of reflection that often goes into journalistic writing (how can you reflect when the press has to run in 10 minutes? etc.), words are used that, upon further discerning, wouldn't be the best choice.

I think anything with regard to were all 6 helping her, was someone else neglected because of her, etc. is speculation that cannot be resolved. Let's not lose sight of her basic humanity, and the judgment of those working in a terrible situation they had no way of knowing would get as bad as it did.

Tragic all around, for all of them. May they all rest in peace.

Originally posted by mtbat
as harsh as this might sound, I don't think that they were wrong in reporting that the woman was "obese". her weight obviously caused the deaths of 6 officers, had she NOT been "obese" perhaps 5 of those officers would be alive today.

There are a lot of things that don't need to be reported, that I will agree on. But the simple fact of the matter is that this woman's weight was the cause of multiple deaths.

And before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I'm a good 60lb overweight, teetering on the brink of what is concidered Obese. I think I'll print out a copy of that story and paste it on my fridge as modivation to stay on my diet.

Fridai

Wow! I think that that's a leap to take. I mean really, it wasn't the obese woman who caused their death but the terrorists who crashed into the building to begin with.

And who knows what the definition of "obese" is to the news media.

Originally posted by realtraveller
Sorry, folks, I want ALL the pertinent facts in my news and to my mind, this is pertinent. It explains why the woman needed a rescue chair. If she were elderly, one-legged, hugely pregnant, or whatever, it explains why she couldn't help herself and why five people sacrificed their lives trying to save her.

Hopefully it will motivate some people to exercise more and eat less so they don't end up in similar circumstances some day.

See, I just can't follow that logic.

Are only "fat" people needing to change? What if this woman had been pregnant? Or had no legs? Then would we blame their deaths on her?

I guess I didn't realize how much prejudice there is against overweight people.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

Originally posted by realtraveller

Hopefully it will motivate some people to exercise more and eat less so they don't end up in similar circumstances some day.

Similar circumstances? Hmmm ... I guess everyone should lose weight so the next time they're in a skyscraper that gets hit by a terrorist plane (happens all the time!) they're easier to carry down the stairs.

On the other hand, maybe everybody should gain weight so the next time they're in an earthquake and the shaking throws them against the wall, they'll have more body padding and be less likely to break their legs, so they'll be able to leave the building on their own power instead of endangering the lives of rescue workers who will be forced to pull them out of the rubble.

[mrisch[$]]

Originally posted by mtbat
as harsh as this might sound, I don't think that they were wrong in reporting that the woman was "obese". her weight obviously caused the deaths of 6 officers, had she NOT been "obese" perhaps 5 of those officers would be alive today.

Yeah, baloney. They would have died trying to save someone else. That's what they do, that's why they died, that's why they were considered hero's.

And let me tell you, if that were my mom, who probably would need a rescue chair due to her weight, I would be quite happy to know that there are people in the world willing to help someone like her in a time of need. And I get those good feelings from the description in the newspaper, and if the description weren't there, I wouldn't have those feelings - they would be 6 more faceless officers who perished. No blame here, nor should there be anywhere.

[jgibson2[$]]

Obese is a medical term. Want a nastier one - try morbidly obese. That's a medical term, too. A friend of mine was quite hurt when her doctor called her that. Fortunately, she responded to his explanation of the term by walking EVERYWHERE. She's down about 50 lbs, so she's still pretty hefty, but much lighter than before her chat with the doctor.

Medical definition of obese is a man who is more than 20% over the maximum ideal weight for his height. For a woman, that's 25%.

There are several definitions of morbid obesity -- one is 100 lbs or more overweight. Another is twice your ideal weight. Yet another is a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or more.

At least they didn't say she was morbidly obese -- THAT would have explained 5 or 6 people to carry her down the stairs if she had a mobility problem. Maybe she was morbidly obese. Maybe it was just because there were so many stairs. Maybe they really didn't believe the building was going to fall down.

I know a number of morbidly obese people who manage to get around quite well on their own two feet. I don't know ANYONE who can't walk just because of obesity. Yes, obesity may be a factor in their mobility problems, but it's generally not the only one.

Did the paper need to use the word obese? Hey, it's a medical term. They could have used a great many other descriptive terms that aren't nearly so polite.

[wivabef]

Originally posted by realtraveller
Sorry, folks, I want ALL the pertinent facts in my news and to my mind, this is pertinent. It explains why the woman needed a rescue chair. If she were elderly, one-legged, hugely pregnant, or whatever, it explains why she couldn't help herself and why five people sacrificed their lives trying to save her.

Hopefully it will motivate some people to exercise more and eat less so they don't end up in similar circumstances some day.

How do we know all six were carrying her? How do we know it was because she was obese and not because she was a parapeligic? Could it be that three were carrying her and three were running up to find more people before the collapse?

That is the problem with the choice of words. That one pot sticker -- obese -- gets tossed in and now everybody is envisioning six people struggling with some 500 pound woman.

30 % over your ideal weight is obese. If you are near 60 pounds overweight, Fridai, you are technically "obese", unless you are very, very tall and should weigh 180 "ideally". So there's no bordering. Let's say someone your size, deemed "obese" is in a rescue chair because scalding hot jet fuel burned your legs so severely you were not able to walk. Or maybe she was knocked out by the smoke. Or maybe she fell down and broke her legs. That could have been your body in that rescue chair. You could be the one an entire nation -- no, make that the world -- is blaming for the deaths of six police officers.

We know nothing else about this poor woman other than she is considered "obese" and she is a "woman" and she was incapicated. Oh, and she is dead.

There has been no evidence presented that she required six police officers to bring her down.

Kristin is right. The terrorists killed those police officers.

And my panties ARE in a bunch because I am obese. Most definitely. In Early Oprah like proportions. And that's what happens to the panties of a chick like me. I'm not proud about it. But it's not like I sit around on my ass eating out of ice cream buckets and watching Jerry Springer. But that doesn't make me unable to help myself. I just spent the weekend sledding with my kids (testing some mass as relating to velocity theories). I can carry two toddlers, a bag of groceries and a gallon of milk without losing my gait. However, a plane crashing into my office building and perhaps injuring me and a bunch of skinny people -- that might make it difficult for all of us to get down.

[pisces]

There are far nastier labels. And I don't think this was done as a negative insult. They were probably using this as a means of identifying the person. They don't know who these people are, so how else would you make an identification?

If they were Black and they were identified as "Black" would there be any complaints?

These are valid physical characteristics with which to identify unknown bodies. I don't think anyone intended any harm.

Originally posted by pisces
There are far nastier labels. And I don't think this was done as a negative insult. They were probably using this as a means of identifying the person. They don't know who these people are, so how else would you make an identification?

If they were Black and they were identified as "Black" would there be any complaints?

These are valid physical characteristics with which to identify unknown bodies. I don't think anyone intended any harm.

Pisces,

There's a big difference in my mind between using an "identifying" label and using a label that isn't necessarily needed to identify. (Too many identifies in one sentence!)

I see no need for them to say whether a person is black or white because in the end - they're dead. Same thing with the "obese" person. Now where would it make sense to separate out identities? If one of the dead was a terrorist. Then that label doesn't bother me at all .

Did they even need to identify 6 of the bodies as policeman/women? Not in my mind but from an empathy point of view, I bet the fact that they found the six of them together probably gave some people some sort of peace.

And then the obese women. Again, I wonder what purpose is served? If they wanted to "identify" her, that's something (her weight) along with any other characteristics that should be circulated among the families that have missing. Hopefully tho, they wouldn't list one of her key physical characteristics as "obese".

Well, I do ramble. Mostly because this article saddens me.

[mtbat]

Originally posted by wivabef


How do we know all six were carrying her? How do we know it was because she was obese and not because she was a parapeligic? Could it be that three were carrying her and three were running up to find more people before the collapse?

That is the problem with the choice of words. That one pot sticker -- obese -- gets tossed in and now everybody is envisioning six people struggling with some 500 pound woman.

30 % over your ideal weight is obese. If you are near 60 pounds overweight, Fridai, you are technically "obese", unless you are very, very tall and should weigh 180 "ideally". So there's no bordering. Let's say someone your size, deemed "obese" is in a rescue chair because scalding hot jet fuel burned your legs so severely you were not able to walk. Or maybe she was knocked out by the smoke. Or maybe she fell down and broke her legs. That could have been your body in that rescue chair. You could be the one an entire nation -- no, make that the world -- is blaming for the deaths of six police officers.

yes, and I'd have died horribly sad knowing that I brought about the deaths of those trying to save me. To know that it didn't NEED to happen the way it did would be horrid.

There has been no evidence presented that she required six police officers to bring her down.

the way the article is phrased make it seem that way, but in all honesty yes, this could be deceptive it could have happened differently.

Kristin is right. The terrorists killed those police officers.

yes, ultimatly the terrorists are responsable for the deaths of ALL the people who died in the WTC.

And my panties ARE in a bunch because I am obese. Most definitely. In Early Oprah like proportions. And that's what happens to the panties of a chick like me. I'm not proud about it. But it's not like I sit around on my ass eating out of ice cream buckets and watching Jerry Springer. But that doesn't make me unable to help myself. I just spent the weekend sledding with my kids (testing some mass as relating to velocity theories). I can carry two toddlers, a bag of groceries and a gallon of milk without losing my gait. However, a plane crashing into my office building and perhaps injuring me and a bunch of skinny people -- that might make it difficult for all of us to get down.

I don't sit around stuffing my face with Ice Cream and I rarely watch shows like Jerry Springer. I too can carry a toddler and a dozzen bags of groceries, a diaper bag and whatever else my 7 year old loads on top of me without losing a step. and I'd hope that if I was in building attacked by terrorists and 6 officers stopped to help me(or in an airplane with burning legs) I'd tell at least 1/2 of them to GO help someone else. I'm overweight, even OBESE but I'm not compleatly out-of-shape. I guess when I read obese, and figure those officers died trying to help her I think more about a friend of mine who is HUNDREDS of pounds overweight, in very poor health-dr told her lose weight or DIE last week and I wonder what would happen if it were her. Maybe I'm ultra sensitive about the word OBESE right now because I'm trying my damnedest to get my friend out walking to lose that weight and she's fighting it every step of the way.

Fridai

[realtraveller]

I still say that the use of the term "obese" is appropriate because it answers the question as to why she was in the rescue chair. It is a more apt term that describing her as a woman, because that tells the reader less about the circumstances. Of course, no matter what reason a person is in the rescue chair, the rescue teams should try and save everyone.

But what is inappropriate about noting that it may have been her obesity that prevented her from negotiating the stairs on her own power. (Since the story said no more, I am assuming that that is the case). If such a cautionary inference starts one obese person exercising more and losing weight then it will have done some good.

.

[jgibson2[$]]

I still say that the use of the term "obese" is appropriate because it answers the question as to why she was in the rescue chair.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!


VERY few obese people are incapable of getting themselves down stairs. Clearly there was some OTHER reason she needed to be rescued.

Considering the percentage of the US population which is obese, several hundred obese people very likely walked themselves down those same stairs.

Now I'm beginning to think that they should have left the stupid word out. The only reason to include it is to let the families of incapacitated skinnies know that THEIR missing loved one hadn't been found.

[realtraveller]

Just because many other obese people were able to make it out under their own power also doesn't prove that there must be some other reason for this woman's inability to do so.

Yes, perhaps the reporters are doing some inferring here. It could be that she had a heart condition or was overcome by smoke or something else. But those reasons are probably unknowable at this point.

But on the other hand, maybe they checked out sources, like people who remembered this rescue attempt and got out. What if they did learn that the woman was unable to walk because of her obesity? Would it be wrong to report that?