This is not an article:

rmthunter · #1 01-31-2005, 08:59 AM

I just couldn't figure out where else to put it.

It's nice having a place here to post articles and such that we don't have other places for, but how about a forum that's really about writing -- discussions on plotting, character development, etc., where we can discuss problems we're having? I've run across a couple lately (since the 'Box is in Limbo) and I'm pretty enthusiastic about them.

One is Scribe's messageboard at runboard.com. It's largely discussions, there are ground rules (which are enforced), they have started doing an annual anthology of fiction and poetry by members, and they do offer critiques after you've been participating for a while. So far, I've found it interesting and the group is very supportive.

The other is Dreaming in Ink, which is much more a workshop set-up: critiques, links to markets, etc. I haven't joined that one yet -- still thinking about it (it means I actually have to produce something) -- but it seems like it would be helpful.

If anyone is interested, I'll post links, but I was thinking and -- Hey! We can do the show right here!

Bob

**theworm**[$] · #2 01-31-2005, 09:05 AM

I thought that was what the Writing Forum was for?

*emeleel* · #3 01-31-2005, 09:06 AM

Yeah, we do have a Writing Forum, but it's been really, really quiet for a loooong time.

**theworm**[$] · #4 01-31-2005, 09:07 AM

Let's revive it!!!!

rmthunter · #5 01-31-2005, 09:32 AM

I'm in favor, but from what I've seen here, we might need a new category just for general discussion -- we have places to post work and make comments, but the comments are not necessarily about the writing.

I've started being very careful about posting pieces online, since that can be taken as using electronic publication rights if you ever have a publisher, and they don't like that. Dreaming in Ink has an interesting set-up for that: pieces that are up for critique are on a private e-mail, and comments are posted on a members-only board; and it has to be a real critique: they post guidelines, and the minimum length is 250 words. (Actually, I can sympathize with that -- it's hard to make sense out of five or ten comments that each only address one issue or one line.)

And both sites are very much about the craft of writing; that's what the discussions center around and that's what the participants are. Scribe's is much more discussion: questions about technical aspects of writing, sections for various genres, threads on character development or plotting where people can bring hypothetical or real problems, that sort of thing. Lots of beginning writers there, so a lot of the advice is basic, but still very helpful.

Bob

*emeleel* · #6 01-31-2005, 09:38 AM

Well, the description of the Writing Forum is "

"A discussion forum about writing - for amateurs and professionals alike."

And there are 3 sub-forums. People have posted stuff to share, stuff to critiques, to discuss, etc., it's just been a really long time since anyone's done that. Of course, there'd still be that pesky "date of publication" problem.

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #7 01-31-2005, 10:24 AM

I seem to remember when people posted in the writing forum, the comments were about the writing, not the subject matter.

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #8 01-31-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

pieces that are up for critique are on a private e-mail, and comments are posted on a members-only board; and it has to be a real critique: they post guidelines, and the minimum length is 250 words.

I think that's a good idea. The comments wouldn't necessarily have to be on a members-only board (though they could be, if the outcome of all of last week's stuff is that members here now have the ability to create private threads -- but I don't think the posting of comments, even publicly, would create a first publication problem the way the posting of the article or story itself would, even if pieces of the story are quoted in the comments. On the other hand, a comments thread restricted to people who signed up to receive the story/article in email could be a good idea, because people who haven't read the story wouldn't be able to make much sense out of the thread.)

I might be interested in participating. I've haven't been writing in ages, but maybe this would be a kick in the pants to do so(?).

I've never been in an online critique group, but I've been in a LOT of face-to-face groups, both formal (in classrooms and conferences) and informal (meeting in people's houses and coffee shops). I think it's really important to have ground rules, because people's expectations can be very different, especially in informal groups that don't have a teacher/leader and a tradition behind them, etc.

rmthunter · #9 02-01-2005, 05:36 AM

It occurs to me that if the section were more structured, it might help the keep people's interest.

Bob

*emeleel* · #10 02-01-2005, 08:42 AM

Do mine ears hear the sound of someone volunteering?

rmthunter · #11 02-01-2005, 12:43 PM

I'm willing to help and make suggestions, but I'm not going to do it all.

For a starter, see my new thread in this forum, unless Amy wants to give us a new forum: "The Craft of Writing."

Since I have now idea how to do that.

Bob

Redlass · #12 02-01-2005, 04:38 PM

Would you want the discussion to be focused on the craft? Or would you also want discussions on the business side of things--contracts, rights, query letters, etc.?

rmthunter · #13 02-01-2005, 05:01 PM

Nooo, noo noo!

Not what I want -- what do you all want?

I personally don't see any reason why we can't have forums dealing with both, or at least threads in which we can talk about finding agents, warn people about scams, etc.

We could even do a rejection slip contest.

Bob

Redlass · #14 02-01-2005, 05:08 PM

*laugh* But I don't want to try for rejection slips. How about a query contest instead? We could even do it in teams so that we could encourage each other.

But then, that may interest only a very few.

rmthunter · #15 02-01-2005, 05:16 PM

Let's make sure we've got stuff that's good enough to send out, first.

(I'm presently collecting rejection slips on a story -- so far I have one very nice rejection and a black hole -- I know they got it, but they've never responded.)

Redlass · #16 02-01-2005, 05:20 PM

There is that--if you're doing fiction. If you're doing non-fiction, you really want to have sold the article/book/story, etc. before you write it.

rmthunter · #17 02-02-2005, 04:32 AM

OK -- thanks to me (with a much-appreciated contribution by Erik and welcome input from all of you) we now have the beginnings of a forum on the craft and business of writing. I also seem to remember that Bridgette (I think it was Bridgette) had some good links for freelancers that she posted a server or two ago, which would be nice to have under the "Business of Writing" section.

From reviewing the comments here, we seem to think that we would like to do this, sorta kinda, we think a little more structure is probably a good idea, we're still debating exactly how to deal with critiques and whether it should be a members only forum (sort of like the guys only forum -- what do they talk about there, anyway? Baseball and beer?), and we have a couple or three threads that might give us a good start.

However, I most carefully do not want this to be mine. I think it should be ours. I think we have a potentially good group here for a serious writing forum, though, and it's a group I personally would enjoy working with very much. I think we can make this an excellent place to hone our skills and help each other with some of our problems. And I think if we have at least five or six people who are participating regularly, that's going to make a viable forum.

Is there real interest? I mean enough to keep it going for longer than a recount? And enough to set up the new forums?

Bob
Dusting off his leadership skills

anderclayton · #18 02-02-2005, 04:48 AM

Well geeze, I'd be interested.

Sounds cool. I haven't really been writing anything lately though but I enjoy critiqueing a lot. I suspect I would have to start writing again though if I wanted to participate

Good motivation.

I do need some people to bounce ideas off of anyhow.

Ander

anderclayton · #19 02-02-2005, 04:50 AM

Hmm. Personally I'd prefer not a members only group but if it were like the Men's Forum (not members only but invite/accept only) that would be OK.

Ander

rmthunter · #20 02-02-2005, 05:03 AM

The thing about members only comes from the whole question of first rights. A lot of publishers/magazines won't touch something that's been online because they will not have first electronic rights, but if we're restricting access, that seems to slide by that little problem.

There's also the question of the kind of environment we want to set up for critiques. I'm not sure I'm ready for any wandering flamer to be commenting on my work. I'd rather it be a group whose foibles I know.

I have absolutely no objection to the invite/accept idea, as long as it helps us.

Bob
Who thought he was the only one up at this hour.

anderclayton · #21 02-02-2005, 05:36 AM

*laugh*

Nope, I'm up. It might not be as late here as it is there (wherever you are--I'm on the West Coast) but I'm up and have internet access at home now

I kinda agree about the limiting access thing in that respect. It looks like we do have the capability on here to do an invite only sort of group or so I gather by how the Men's group works so that would be fine. I'm not necessarily a fan of exclusivity but I'd kinda prefer a similar situation as you describe.

Ander

rmthunter · #22 02-02-2005, 05:37 AM

For those who might like to check it out, here's a link to Scribe's:

http://com1.runboard.com/bthescribesmessageboard

I'm not taking this as an exact model, although there are some very interesting and helpful forums on this board, and the members all seem to be very supportive and open to suggestion. (Although I haven't really run across much there about nonfiction writing, and vanishingly little about the writing "business," aside from some nods to copyright issues. I think we have the resources here to add substantially in those areas.)

Of course, it may turn out that you all think we should just hang out at Scribe's. That's fine, too, but I think we have a chance to have a tailor-made forum here, which would be super.

Bob