Patents?

[Magick1]

Does anyone know about how to go about getting a patent?

Where does one go?

Does it cost anything?

(And, any other additional information you can think of would be appreciated!)

[nc10]

I've been involved with patent applications at work, but don't know much about the cost and filing end, we have a couple patent attorneys who we work with. I'm told it costs companys (at least in the industry I work in) around $100M to maintain a patent for its life for coverage in the US, Europe and Japan (and probably some other indusrialized countries), so its not something done lightly. I imagine just a US application fee is a small fraction of that, and its less for individuals than businesses, but I don't know the numbers. These documents give some fees (clear as mud to me).... http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com.../68fr41532.pdf
http://www.uspto.gov/go/fees/index.html

If its important, I'd think you'd want to start with a patent attorney, if he agreed to proceed with the application, he'd hire a search firm to make a patent search first.

Have you looked for similar patents yourself?
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

[Joubert[$]]

Kim,

Patents are an incredibly hot area right now. I also have a little involvement with them, and one thing I have learned is that a good, enforceable patent takes a lot of money and highly specialized lawyers. Then, even if your attorney files the paperwork, the government takes an awfully long time in the review process.

But check out the PTO links Neal gave you. There are millions of patents and part of what an attorney will do is a search for similar patents. Obviously, you may or may not find something using the links yourself, but it couldn't hurt.

[frazzledspice]

I know they're much more complicated to get than copyrights.

They also offer considerably more protection to the creator than a copyright does.

I think that some cities have "inventors clubs." I'll bet there's an inventor's yahoo group out there....

If you talked to some amateur inventors they could probably provide more assistance than we could.

[pluckyduck]

Lay person! I'm not a lawyer, but I'd like to play one on TV sometime.

First of all, make sure you aren't confusing your terms. Lay people often mix "copyright", "trademark" and "patent" (and if they knew about "servicemark" they'd mix that in there, too).

A patent is, more or less, for either an invention, or a even an appreciable twist on an everyday product, that adds a unique function.

Example:
A patent on a "Robot Calculator" was successfully defended in my industry. The twist on an everyday product was the way the cover opened up.

Patents are tricky and expensive. There's no do-it-yourself method, at least not one that would ever stand up in court. And here's the key: if the invention has any real value at all, it must be able to stand up in court.

Robot Calculator cited above was knocked off by about 11ty hundred people. Defense of the patent took about two years, during which time the 11ty hundred people continued to sell their products, and end result was the 11ty hundred people had to stop selling the product, after their existing inventory was depleted.

Icing on the cake? One of the 11ty hundred people put his own twist on the way the cover mechanism worked, and changed it enough to get his own patent. Which he has probably had to defend.

I'm not trying to discourage you. The housewife-mother-of-five who patented that mop thing that she sold over QVC, made millions. The guy who patented the storage cube tote which is currently on QVC and is just hitting my industry now, is going to make millions.

Minimum you need about $500 to start with a patent search, to see if somebody has patented your invention already. (Beware of fly by night patent invention companies, they will take your money and string you along. Go for a real patent lawyer.)

Once you get past the patent search, you need $$ for drawings and patent filings and such, maybe as much as $10,000. If your invention is really good, you might be able to find somebody to finance you...but of course, you have to watch whom you talk to. You should have a non-disclosure agreement signed before you talk to anybody or show them anything.

Enough info? If I've made any errors here, I trust a Real Lawyer to come along and correct me.

Andrea
who also plays doctor occasionally

[nc10]

pluckyduck said

Lay person! I'm not a lawyer, but I'd like to play one on TV sometime.

First of all, make sure you aren't confusing your terms. Lay people often mix "copyright", "trademark" and "patent" (and if they knew about "servicemark" they'd mix that in there, too).

A patent is, more or less, for either an invention, or a even an appreciable twist on an everyday product, that adds a unique function.

I don't even want to be a lawyer on TV....so take this for what its worth

Trade Secret is another term that will come up. If an idea is good, specific to a single product, and is something that is not apparent to the outside world, (ie, you've found that cows will make chocolate milk if they only eat rhubarb and barley, a concept that competitors might not be able to tell by looking at the chocolate milk), you might want to keep that idea a "trade secret" and not risk letting others know enough find a way "around" your patent to take advantage of your idea. If the idea could be of value in areas that you don't intend to participate in, you still might patent the idea to be able to sell or license the technology.

Once you patent something, and others want to compete, it becomes a starting point that people will build on, like Pluckyduck's robot calculator where some competitors tried to find workarounds for the patent. I remember reading a similar article 2-3 years ago about the people who invented the icicle Christmas lights (seems like every house with Christmas lights 5 years ago had them), they patented the products, but other bigger companies made knockoffs anyway. http://www.realestatejournal.com/hou...9-coleman.html

Another definition of a patent is that its a way to make life difficult for your competitors by limiting their options or adding costs to their options for competing with you. At least the new robot calculator producers had to spend some money to develop minor mod's to the robot calculator, or spend $ on legal fees, or eventually limited their sales.

[Magick1]

Thanks so much everyone! I appreciate you help.

[pluckyduck]

nc10 said

I remember reading a similar article 2-3 years ago about the people who invented the icicle Christmas lights (seems like every house with Christmas lights 5 years ago had them), they patented the products, but other bigger companies made knockoffs anyway. http://www.realestatejournal.com/hou...9-coleman.html

Another definition of a patent is that its a way to make life difficult for your competitors by limiting their options or adding costs to their options for competing with you. At least the new robot calculator producers had to spend some money to develop minor mod's to the robot calculator, or spend $ on legal fees, or eventually limited their sales.

Perfect illustrative story! That's exactly what the patent is like, real world.

Indefensible patents used as a tactic are a burr in my personal saddle, btw. Been a wave of them in my industry the last two years.

Example:

Small factory gets awarded a patent on a common item, a plastic container for mints, only in a heart shape. (You know, the very unique, add to function heart shape. )

Starts sending cease and desist letters to other suppliers who have a similar product. No way in heck this patent would stand up in court (just because they gave you one, doesn't mean the judge will decide you should have had it in the first place), but one thing and another, my supplier said he just didn't feel like spending $10 grand on the lawyers to make his point.

Irritates the heck out of me. I sell a fair share of them, but I'm not selling the patent guy's product out of principle. Pulling it entirely.

However, just because what I see day-to-day is patent thrown around as business strategy (not Edison patenting the light bulb), doesn't meant that the common person can't invent something useful that they can reasonably protect.

I never thought I'd see a tote bag turn into a patentable invention. This:



Is the drop dead handiest thing I've laid eyes on in many a day. It's just hitting our industry in 2004 (different material, add company logo), and I've personally found about 1561 uses for it. (I keep bringing more and more home. )

Stores pancake flat and easily pops open to hold whatever, stabily. It has a rigid bottom and some kind of springy mechanism that enables it pop flat again with just two fingers pressed, one on either side.

So far I've found it makes a perfect bottom of the stairs catch all, trunk organizer, carrier for leftovers or pot luck dinner offerings, kids toy organizer, hat-gloves-scarves organizer.... I even have one that I use strictly as a white sock hamper!

The way I understand the origins, "some guy" just invented it, patented it, and got it on QVC. The guy then offered it exclusively to one supplier in our industry, and this thing is going to tear.

So, it can be done. The knock offs will come, but the patent on this one appears to be really strong.

Andrea

[mrisch[$]]

Yes, I sell shrubberies...

Oh, wait wrong board - yes, I know about patents. You are getting some good lay advice, though the costs you are hearing are a little bit on the high side.

If you have a specific question feel free to email me or drop me a PM.