The Lip Kiss thing

**pluckyduck** · #1 12-23-2003, 10:28 AM

Flu season has me thinking about this. I'm curious if there is any industry/sector that has the bizarre social customs that my bizarre industry does. No real point to my post other than to ask if you've ever heard of "such a thing".

There are graduations of greetings between players, culiminating in the highest level of familiarity, the Lip Kiss. (Male/female usually, although not exclusively...sometimes female/female, never male/male.) Alcohol is not involved. It is perfectly normal to stand in the office lobby and lip kiss three supplier reps in a row. :lips:

I started turning down Lip Kisses when flu season began and I think I'm hurting some feelings.

Basically, the protocol breaks down like this:

1) first time you meet somebody (if you have no real phone relationship), shake hands warmly

2) first time you meet somebody, (if you have a real phone/email relationship), hug gently

3) subsequent meetings, progress to hugging enthusiastically, unless you do a lot of business with them and then...

4) progress to cheek kiss coupled with enthusiastic hug

5) Lip Kiss after five years or more of knowing them, if you are a "player" and you consider the other person to be a "player" as well.

There's status conferred with Lip Kiss. As well as flu germs.

Ever heard of such a bizarre thing? The industry was like this when I got here 16 years ago. I think this has been going on forever.

I'm curious. This social thing is just weird.

Andrea

poseidon · #2 12-23-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

I'm curious. This social thing is just weird.

Ya think?

No, I've never heard of it, and frankly, wouldn't want to take part of it. Shaking hands is fine. Giving a hug is fine. A kiss on the cheek is fine. A kiss on the lips is not.

**mtomm**[$] · #3 12-23-2003, 10:54 AM

I'm thinking I'm glad I'm not in your industry. My co-worker who I've seen everyday for the last year gave me hug. That was a pretty big deal for me. Shaking hands is fine, hugs are for my kids and hubby. I don't always even offer my hand.

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #4 12-23-2003, 10:54 AM

LI is the home of the cheek-kiss. I was never even a hugger when I lived in Buffalo, and here it's hug/cheek kiss or handshake pulling in to cheek-kiss. Met one or two lip-kissers here and learned how to quickly turn my face! The only one I lip-kiss is Hubby.

**taurusmoon** · #5 12-23-2003, 11:01 AM

**theworm**[$] · #6 12-23-2003, 11:02 AM

I work in a very kissy industry, but we stick to cheeks.

Some choose face cheeks some butt cheeks.

**lynnzop**[$] · #7 12-23-2003, 11:05 AM

Quote:

poseidon said

Ya think?

No, I've never heard of it, and frankly, wouldn't want to take part of it. Shaking hands is fine. Giving a hug is fine. A kiss on the cheek is fine. A kiss on the lips is not.

Ugh. I'm with Jeff. And MJ. And everyone else. I kiss my hubby and kids on the lips. Mom and Dad on occasion. My friends or business associates whom I am VERY close to I will hug or cheek kiss, but NEVER on the lips. :blech:

Given your business, however, Andrea, I think the flu excuse is really good. I'd use it 24x7x365.

**pluckyduck** · #8 12-23-2003, 11:43 AM

I actually refused the Lip Kiss until the last two or three years. I would always turn my cheek, to turn a Lip Kiss into a cheek kiss.

I noticed, though, that as the business in my division grew, my cheek turning seemed to be hurting the feelings of people I'd known for a l-o-n-g time. (Oh, she's too standoffish now to give a Lip Kiss.) An accepted Lip Kiss signifies "you're in with me".

Wormie, glad to hear that you are in a "kissy" industry too, even if they don't go to the Lip Kiss. I think kissing in business is WEIRD, but I guess it all works out to just some kind of secret handshake or something. Nobody means anything sexual by it.

Handshakes pass flu germs, too, nearly as much as Lip Kiss. An enthusiastic hug is probably the least germ passing of all the rituals.

Andrea
who reminds you to hug a business partner today

P.S. oh and male/male seems to involve a lot of back slapping, poking and general jabbing. I haven't really paid too close attention, but I think I will for the heck of it now.

**theworm**[$] · #9 12-23-2003, 11:49 AM

I don't want to hug a business partner today! Please don't make me.

In my industry men kiss women, women kiss women, men hug men.

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #10 12-23-2003, 11:52 AM

Other ideas for avoiding The Lip Kiss:

Wear really obvious, sticky lip gloss to all holiday events.

Cough a lot and always have kleenex handy; swipe at your nose when you see someone coming.

Eat garlic for lunch.

Chew on a big wad of bubble gum and make it obvious. Blow bubbles as people approach.

**mrisch**[$] · #11 12-23-2003, 11:53 AM

Well, we would have tongue the paralegals, but we would get in trouble for that. No such thing in the law community, for fairly obvious reasons.

**pluckyduck** · #12 12-23-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

theworm said

I don't want to hug a business partner today! Please don't make me.

In my industry men kiss women, women kiss women, men hug men.

Very interesting!

I don't think there is any male/male hugging that goes on.

Women/women is usually "Hey, girl, how are you????", big hug, cheek kiss.

Men/men along the lines of "Hey, buddy, what's up???" , no hug, slap arms across the shoulders, slap a few more times, shake hands, joke and start poking (poking usually having something to do with weight somebody gained).

Men/women is something like "Sweetie (darling, honey, whatever endearment), it's so good to see you!" hug initiated by either, Lip Kiss initiated by the guy and accepted (or not) by the female.

I love social dynamics.

Andrea

poseidon · #13 12-23-2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

pluckyduck said

I noticed, though, that as the business in my division grew, my cheek turning seemed to be hurting the feelings of people I'd known for a l-o-n-g time. (Oh, she's too standoffish now to give a Lip Kiss.) An accepted Lip Kiss signifies "you're in with me".

Not to be crass, but if the industry standard was that you had to give a holiday screw to anyone who asked, and it hurt their feelings if you'd refuse, would you give into the peer pressure and have sex? IMO, you tell these people straight up, "Hey, I like you, you're great, but I reserve kisses on the lips for my family, no exceptions." If you need to break some tension, maybe add in, "I love my dog but I don't kiss him on the lips, either."

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #14 12-23-2003, 12:30 PM

Another idea: using various colors of lip pencil, draw a big cold sore on your upper lip. If you're really resourceful, find out where actors get those fake warts and boils they put on their faces and learn how to apply.

eris esoteric · #15 12-23-2003, 12:37 PM

I'm *really* glad I work nights, and have minimal social dyanmics to deal with.

*Really* glad.

theeye · #16 12-23-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

poseidon said

If you need to break some tension, maybe add in, "I love my dog but I don't kiss him on the lips, either."

I would advise against using this line with anyone with whom you wish you maintain a close business relationship.

People draw the line at different points when it comes to this sort of thing. And everyone always thinks that 'my standards are sensible ... and anyone much 'looser' than me is a slut and anyone much 'stricter' than me is a prude'. Orthodox Jews who don't shake hands with people of the opposite gender manage to make their way in business, even with people who might be inclined to find their standards silly or even insulting.

Draw your line where you're comfortable with it; be consistent; and try to convey your reasons lightly, without indicating that you find anyone else's behavior inappropriate, but that it's just not for you. Perhaps go for an extra enthusiastic, warm hug and a 'you know, I adore you, but I just cannot do That Lip Thing with anyone but hubby'.

Whatever you do, remember to be utterly consistent.

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #17 12-23-2003, 01:23 PM

Start wearing a chador at these functions. They can't kiss your lips if they can't find them.

mj
always striving to be Very Helpful.

ms_n · #18 12-23-2003, 02:04 PM

Kisses are political? Let the flu swapping begin. ugh. You shouldn't have to be in with the kissers to be a good business person. Hang in there and guard your kisser. You just may be the only healthy one left in the end. :thumbs:

**theworm**[$] · #19 12-23-2003, 02:06 PM

Andrea - do you feel like they don't understand the importance of the kiss. I've had to kiss buyers that I can't stand because thats what you do with a buyer. The lip thing I think is a bit strange, but not kissing can actually hurt business.

poseidon · #20 12-23-2003, 02:17 PM

Quote:

theworm said

Andrea - do you feel like they don't understand the importance of the kiss. I've had to kiss buyers that I can't stand because thats what you do with a buyer. The lip thing I think is a bit strange, but not kissing can actually hurt business.

There is nothing more important in this world than my wife. This means that I respect her, this means that I support her, and this means that our marriage is of incredible importance.

I don't frankly care if my wife should understand that if I kiss someone else "for business purposes" that there's nothing behind the kiss. The simple fact that I'm kissing someone outside of the family IMO means that I'm showing an outward lack of respect for my wife. That's the absolute last thing on earth that I'd ever want to convey to her -- whether she knows about it or not (IOW, I don't want to demonstrate a lack of respect to her to others, either).

I'd hate to bring it up again, but what if the tradition was a screw, or a grope, or something else besides a kiss? Do you go along with it, convincing yourself that it is okay because there's nothing behind it and it is good for business? IMO, if that's the case, then head to your local red light district and at least get paid for your trouble.

You'd also have to keep in mind the trouble that this can start -- even if your means are purely innocent. All it takes is one outsider to see you kiss and happen to strike up a conversation with your spouse. IMO, it is a lot more difficult to have to try and explain it away than it is to simply not partake in it at all.

My guess is that if you plainly state your reasons for not partaking in this "tradition" then the people that count will respect you for your decision -- you just have to be firm and you have to be kind in the process.

**theworm**[$] · #21 12-23-2003, 02:29 PM

Oh Jeff - my husband knows that I kiss clients on the cheek, and neither of us think I'm disrespecting the marriage. Believe me, there is a big difference between the way I kiss a client on the cheek and the way I kiss my husband. And you were right the first time - the comparison to a hello "screw" is rather crass. I understand your point, but I don't put so much importance in a peck on the cheek to not kiss a client that I don't find repulsive.
Andrea - are you with me on this?

**conradd** · #22 12-23-2003, 02:35 PM

Different industries, Jeff. You're obviously not required to kiss your clients

and they probably deeply appreciate this. However, unless Andrea changes careers, it's a problem for her. Citing Reggie isn't going to help and would probably come across as insulting. And there's a huge difference between a kiss and a "screw" as you so elegantly put it. A kiss does not have to be sexual. It's a form of business communication in some circles. There are very few people that I'll kiss on the lips, but in a few cases, it's a necessity. And if I were married, it would have nothing to do with my feelings of respect for my husband. I'd hope that he'd be secure enough to understand that.

Deb