Auto Insurance Companies

Magick1 · #1 01-07-2008, 12:48 PM

Why is it, your own insurance company will keep the salvage value from their client, when it isn't even them paying the claim?

I have been trying to find information regarding our wrecked car. There is a law of diminishing values and the fact of the trade in value, the damage value etc. and we have questioned why the vehicle was not totalled.

Does anyone have any clues why this is such a hidden secret, even from the client that owns the vehicle, when their own company doesn't have to pay?

Just curious. It's getting another review by our insurance adjuster & I believe they are racking the vehicle, like they should have previously. Considering our adjuster missed the front grill was cracked, it doesn't leave me feeling very comfortable with their skills at this point.

**pippadaisy**[$] · #2 01-07-2008, 01:16 PM

I'd PM Jeff.

**jgibson2**[$] · #3 01-07-2008, 02:19 PM

Or email him. He left this email address poseidon33@msn.com in the linkedin thread. Jeff (poseidon) really knows this stuff.

Magick1 · #4 01-07-2008, 04:54 PM

Will do! Thanks!

poseidon · #5 01-07-2008, 05:35 PM

As I told Kim, unfortunately I'm too far out of the biz. I've spent the last 2.5 years trying to forget as much of insurance as I could, and honestly, auto was never really my game anyway, despite the fact that it made up about 10% of my caseload.

I will say this... I never withheld the salvage value to our clients. I was always up-front with all of my figures because I prided myself in being honest with people and presenting all of the facts. When I settled total losses, I gave them the value of the car, where I obtained the values from, what the salvage value was, how much they would get if they wanted to keep the vehicle and how much they'd get if they wanted to sell the vehicle to the insurance company.

I believe in treating others the way that I'd like to be treated. That's the best way to offer excellent customer service, and it is what I demand from others in our company. Thankfully, as an executive, I'm in a position to make those demands.

**thinkerlady**[$] · #6 01-07-2008, 08:35 PM

Kim-
You mentioned in another thread who you were insured with. I have never been insured by them, but have been in 2 accidents where they are the responsible party. I have had to fight almost tooth and nail with them. I found them very difficult to deal with.
Good thing you are on top of things.

Magick1 · #7 01-07-2008, 09:42 PM

Too bad the people that you want to be on your side (my company in this instance) treats me more like the "criminal" and wants me to be kept in the dark.

I could understand it if they were having to pay the claim like it were my fault. But, this instance, it will be the other company. That's what boggles my brain!

The car dealer where the vehicle is located was middle, my company was the lowest (both of which missed somethings on their review) and the other company's adjuster is the one that pointed out the problems and was highest on the damage amounts.

You would think it would be the other way around, wouldn't ya! That seems to be my luck recently! I used it all up saving myself from going down a huge embankment! (Which is great, but....)

I have been with my company almost 2 decades, and honestly, I thing there were 2 claims in that time frame, 1 a windshield replacement due to a large, cracking chip and the other was my now spouse, 20 years + ago someone backed into him in a parking lot. He's been with them almost since he could walk!

**thinkerlady**[$] · #8 01-07-2008, 11:17 PM

My last accident was last fall. I was inching out of my parking space at school. A man was parked in a walk zone between 2 handicapped spaces. He backed into the side of my car. His insurance company claimed it was mutual responsibility, and refused to even come out and look at my car. They wouldn't not even discuss the point, and closed the case. No review. Never saw my car. Never even read any report. My insurance co. advised me to get an estimate, and I did. Then I contacted an attorney who took pictures, and wrote a letter to them. Within 2 weeks after they received the letter, I had a check from them, and then was able to get my car fixed. But...I went through a lot of hassle and of course the expense of an attorney.

frazzledspice · #9 01-08-2008, 02:35 AM

If your car can be fixed for less than its book value, I don't think you have an alternative to getting it fixed. About all you can do is take the money they offer you and spend it on a different car, but the money they offer you won't be the book value of the car.

The last time we were involved in an accident, we learned that if your car is under warranty, the insurance company has to use factory parts, etc. to fix your car. But if your car isn't under warranty, they are allowed to use other brands of parts, and for things like radiators, etc. can even use rebuilt parts.

I guess that if everyone's insurance premiums are commensurately less when their car goes off warranty, it's fair....but if there isn't a big drop in premiums when their cars go off warranty, it's not fair.

Magick1 · #10 01-08-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

frazzledspice said

If your car can be fixed for less than its book value, I don't think you have an alternative to getting it fixed. About all you can do is take the money they offer you and spend it on a different car, but the money they offer you won't be the book value of the car.

The last time we were involved in an accident, we learned that if your car is under warranty, the insurance company has to use factory parts, etc. to fix your car. But if your car isn't under warranty, they are allowed to use other brands of parts, and for things like radiators, etc. can even use rebuilt parts.

I guess that if everyone's insurance premiums are commensurately less when their car goes off warranty, it's fair....but if there isn't a big drop in premiums when their cars go off warranty, it's not fair.

Our body shop asked if we were wanting OEM parts or rebuilt, etc to help defray the costs, I think. I remember it on the form anyway. But, our car is out of warranty, many moons ago.

I have to say, all of this was a wild end to the old year & a harrowing start to the New Year. This past week and a half has felt like 2 months. It's been stressful.

*emeleel* · #11 01-08-2008, 09:10 AM

**pippadaisy**[$] · #12 01-08-2008, 10:03 AM

Angie, your story is the perfect example of why you should ALWAYS call the police, even if it looks like a tiny accident. Insurance companies can't argue with a police report.

poseidon · #13 01-08-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

pippadaisy said

Insurance companies can't argue with a police report.

Pippa,

With all due respect, you're completely wrong. Insurance companies argue all the time with what police reports state. Unless the police officer was there to witness the accident, he or she is working based upon evidence presented, nothing more.

There are times when the police show up and do not fully investigate the facts, or base their report based upon who is the less angry at them, etc.

I was an arbitration judge for a few years. I can't tell you the number of times that a police report's findings have been faulty, full of holes, etc. and the report was dismissed because the evidence clearly told a different story.

Should the police have been called in a small accident? Absolutely! Are the police infallible? No way.

Jeff

**thinkerlady**[$] · #14 01-08-2008, 10:16 PM

Oh, I learned my lesson. I was under the miss understanding that the police did not come out for a small fender bender, which is exactly what the guy who hit me said. When I did call the police, they clarified the story. Basically they said, you call we come.

What Jeff said tho, is true. In this case, all the adjuster had to do was look at the side of my car, and see where the other car was parked to realize that my car doesn't travel left to right!!! The problem was that State Farm refused to come out and look at my car. They would not send someone to the site where the accident happened, nor would they discuss it any further. I don't know what their insured told them, but it was enough for them to deem "mutual responsibility". My company's adjuster looked at it, and laughed. The adjuster told me in no uncertain terms that there was no way I was responsible. So we got the estimate, I could have gone through the insurance company's attorney, but it would have taken longer. I got my own, he wrote a letter, and I got a check. All State Farm had to do was come out and look at the car.

poseidon · #15 01-09-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

thinkerlady said

Oh, I learned my lesson. I was under the miss understanding that the police did not come out for a small fender bender, which is exactly what the guy who hit me said. When I did call the police, they clarified the story. Basically they said, you call we come.

What Jeff said tho, is true. In this case, all the adjuster had to do was look at the side of my car, and see where the other car was parked to realize that my car doesn't travel left to right!!! The problem was that State Farm refused to come out and look at my car. They would not send someone to the site where the accident happened, nor would they discuss it any further. I don't know what their insured told them, but it was enough for them to deem "mutual responsibility". My company's adjuster looked at it, and laughed. The adjuster told me in no uncertain terms that there was no way I was responsible. So we got the estimate, I could have gone through the insurance company's attorney, but it would have taken longer. I got my own, he wrote a letter, and I got a check. All State Farm had to do was come out and look at the car.

That's a huge mistake on State Farm's part. The only time that I never had a vehicle looked at was when liability was a slam-dunk. Otherwise, if there was any chance of dispute, the vehicle was looked at to document the damage of both vehicles. If liability could not be determined merely by looking at the vehicles, the accident scene was then documented as well by photos and a drawing of the scene.

As an arbitration judge, I can't tell you how many adjusters I've spanked because they did a piss-poor investigation and wasted my time because of it. Saying that, there are SOME companies out there that dispute liability as a matter of SOP, hoping that you'll take the deal. When I mean SOP, I mean that if you were in your vehicle at the time of the accident, you were at least 5% liable for the accident. The adjusters at these companies always throw up so much smoke and mirrors hoping that something will confuse the arbitration judge that we'd simply agree. The trick is to cut through the BS and to bring it back to the facts.

I wish in arbitration that I was allowed to assign punitive damages, but alas, this was not allowed. I think that if insurance companies were fined for shady tactics, then adjusters would be more honest and drive people far less crazy. I must admit, however, that I enjoyed (thoroughly) chiding dishonest adjusters and making it very clear and concise exactly what the adjuster did wrong. Oftentimes, the chiding was longer than the actual decision -- the attempt was to do something that would really make the adjuster listen -- if I could make the adjuster look bad because of his or her actions, they'd not want to risk having me as a judge again and they'd think about it the next time they were handling a claim. Sadly, it didn't work. But, it sure made me feel better.

There are a lot of good, honest adjusters out there that have too much on their plate and don't have time to play games. I was one of those adjusters. Unfortunately, you also have a lot of adjusters that get off on the power trip and enjoy wielding their power. These adjusters might save their company dollars year-over-year compared to the honest ones, but they're also the ones that give the industry a huge black eye and its terrible reputation.

**mtomm**[$] · #16 01-09-2008, 11:32 AM

We were just involved in a parking lot accident claim. My 16 yo son was backing up and hit a car of a young woman. Of course, no damage to the Suburban but damage to the car. They only exchanged information and no police were called. He described it as a minor accident and a little damage.

THREE months later the father calls and explains he's got about $1600 worth of damage. The adjuster from our insurance company took pics. Holy crap! Not a fender bender.

Anyway, our adjuster was an absolute peach. We ended up paying out of pocket instead of making a claim and he saved us a bundle. Our agent is a good friend and also helped us a lot but the adjuster made all of the difference.

*emeleel* · #17 01-09-2008, 04:59 PM

Is son still driving? Is he even able to *sit* after telling you it was "minor"?

**mtomm**[$] · #18 01-09-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

emeleel said

Is son still driving? Is he even able to *sit* after telling you it was "minor"?

It was more like: Bryce, let me explain "minor." It was just so not minor that we were just stunned and laughed with our agent in his office looking at the pics. He is a good friend and broke it too us gently. He also knows Bryce very, very well and has given him a good ribbing about it.

Bryce had enough money in savings to cover it thanks to the part-time job he was leaving when the accident happened. We would have made a claim on the insurance but we'd only been with them for about 2 months and my husband got 2 speeding tickets in those two months. Needless to say our rates would have been through the roof after the claim and if they picked up on those 2 tickets (that is what made me even more angry grrr) thus paying out of pocket was the cheapest route.

**jgibson2**[$] · #19 01-10-2008, 12:32 AM

We've been very lucky with insurance adjusters. Our closest to a horror story involved a rental car. Someone left a small ding in a side door backing into the thing in a parking lot. A police officer friend of my husband's wrote a detailed report and we told the rental agent when we turned the car back in.

MONTHS later we got a letter from rental company's attorney wanting many thousands of dollars for repairs, towing, loss of use of the vehicle. From damage on the OTHER side of the car. Never mind the fact that we'd kept the paperwork when we turned the car in as well as the police report. I photocopied those and sent them off to the insurance company. We heard later that someone at the rental agency was looking for a new job. They probably shouldn't have told us that last part, but he deserved it.

**Helen_B**[$] · #20 01-11-2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

emeleel said

Is son still driving? Is he even able to *sit* after telling you it was "minor"?

Although this sounds obviously NOT minor, sometimes it's hard to see damage right away. Someone hit my rear bumper at night, and I couldn't see anything wrong. The next day, when I went to the accident reporting center, the policeman who looked at the car spotted the damage immediately. Cost over $1500 to reair the bumper.