Stupid is as stupid does -- or, sore losers

[poseidon]

We had an election here yesterday. The only state-wide issues on the ballot were Referendums C & D. Referendum C allowed the state to keep our TABOR tax refunds for the next five years. Referendum D allowed the state, if Referendum C passed, to take out loans.

I voted against both. The state should have tightened its belt, just like the rest of the citizens have to, and, moreover, there was no specificity as to how the unrefunded tax overages were going to be spent. But, everyone and his brother seem to believe that they'd encounter some sort of windfall.

Referendum C passed. I'm not happy. Referendum D failed. At least the people got it half-right.

I'm bringing up the same point now that I brought up a year ago -- I really dislike sore losers. Right now, the "sore losers" are those who were against Referendums C & D. Not happy with the outcome of the race, a lawsuit is already planned to be filed, challenging the constitutionality of Referendum C.

It is bad enough that the state has been given basically a blank check. Now, they get to waste it on defending a stupid lawsuit.

[mtbat]

jeff, you've lived here long enough to know-the insanity from Boulder has spread.

the whole Marajuana thing just makes me go eh.

[erik_kosberg]

Grover Norquist takes one on the chin. Cool.

[erik_kosberg]

http://www.tpmcafe.com/comments/2005...181831/241/4#4

Grover Norquist years from now will leap into a campground campfire after being reminded about Colorado -- the tax-cutting state that magically overcame his cruel grip on fiscal policy... and his burns will be successfully treated by a single-payer health care system.

[drmomentum[$]]

Can you explain the phrase "stupid is as stupid does?" I've heard it a number of times, but I'm unclear on the precise meaning.

Some site said that it means "if you act stupid, you are stupid" but I was always taught that everyone does something stupid now and again, but labelling a person stupid is different than lebelling an action as stupid.

It makes more sense to me if it means that stupidity is a funciton of your behavior, rather than IQ. Actually, the phrase "beauty is as beauty does" makes more sense to me, because it seems to be sayign that beauty is not in your appearance, but in your actions and behavior. (Obviously reversible to "ugly is as ugly does.")

Anyone else have a different take?


-JP

[Redlass]

Originally, I think the phrase was supposed to be a positive one. When you see Forrest Gump use it in that movie, the point is supposed to be that while some people would label him stupid because his IQ is so low, his mother taught him that he isn't stupid if he doesn't act stupid.

In other words, our intellectual capacity is irrelevant--it is only what we do that determines whether we are smart or dumb.

But yeah, all of us do something stupid sometimes and it's far better that we're able to forgive ourselves and move on then to determine that we're stupid and encourage future stupidity out of learned hopelessness.

[poseidon]

Really? I always thought it meant that if you see someone do something stupid, it was best to try and not be stupid along with that person or by following in that person's footsteps.

Shrug.

[Redlass]

I'm curious now. None of my usage books have the phrase, I'll do some more digging.

[Redlass]

OK, here's what I've found so far (from a variety of sources as I think usage is as important as original intention):

It means that and intelligent person who does stupid things is still stupid. You are what you do. Another variation is "beauty is as beauty does" or "ugly is as ugly does".

From Val Souza column:

For writers, a clever turn of phrase should come naturally, but even the best need a reference point for proverbs and idioms now and then. Cambridge Dictionaries Online (dictionary.cambridge.org) is a pretty solid resource, but sometimes you have to look beyond. I’d never really understood the old adage “Stupid is as stupid does” (made famous in the movie Forrest Gump) until I referred to The Phrase Finder (www.phrases.org.uk) and Wordwizard (www.wordwizard.com).

The Phrase Finder:

You know that movie about that slow guy, Forest Gump? Whenever someone called him stupid, he'd say "Stupid is as Stupid Does." Well, I must be really slow because I don't understand that at all. Can someone tell me?
You are not (always) what you are labeled. You prove what you are by your actions.

My mama always said, "Pretty is as pretty does." Meaning one is only attractive if one has an attractive manner. Mrs. Gump was trying to tell her son that the boys who acted mean to him were really the stupid ones.

From ESL Notes:

"Stupid is as stupid does."
An expression that became famous because of this movie. I think this is mama's way of
saying "Just because you look stupid, you're not stupid unless you do stupid things."
A great thing to say the next time your boyfriend calls you an idiot. Or maybe not.

I'm starting to think it is a phrase that has different meanings for different people.

[drmomentum[$]]

Interesting that in the Forrest Gump popularized version, it is a positive phrase.

And, in fact, it almost seems it's similar to what I was taught. That "stupidity" is a function of actions, not people. But also, the stupidity is in the actions and not the people. So, stupid is not you, it's what you do. At least, in one interpretation.

Words and phrases are subject to heavy interpretation, which is why they sometimes completely reverse meaning.

[poseidon]

Well, let me rephrase here, then. I think it is stupid for people to start suing when an election doesn't turn out the way they think it should. That's happening far too often (and no, I'm actually not talking about the 2000 general election at all).

[realtraveller]

Suing after the election is so passe. In the 2003 recall election the ACLU sued to stop the election before it happened.

[poseidon]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.

Frankly, I'd rather see the lawsuit prior to the election than after it. If a proposed Amendment, or whatever, is blatantly unconstitutional, that's the time to fight it IMO.

It isn't as if nobody has any time (at least not in Colorado) to review and fight it if necessary.

[Redlass]

Is that possible? To challenge something in the courts as unconstitutional when it is only a proposal? I thought you had to wait until it became a law.

[drmomentum[$]]

poseidon said

Well, let me rephrase here, then.

Just to be clear, I wasn't intending to criticise your diction, and I think you got your point across well enough.

I was pretty sure I understood what you meant in general, but since I have never used the phrase I was curious about the exact meaning. Apparently, there are a variety of meanings.

In any case, to try to undo threadjack damage, I guess it depends on what people are suing about. Isn't it possible for people to vote for their town to do something illegal?

-JP

[poseidon]

Redlass said

Is that possible? To challenge something in the courts as unconstitutional when it is only a proposal? I thought you had to wait until it became a law.

Again, I can only reference Colorado. We have had ballot proposals go before the CO Supreme Court to take them off prior to a vote taking place.

[poseidon]

drmomentum said

Isn't it possible for people to vote for their town to do something illegal?

Sure it is. But, why let it get as far as a vote by the people? Why not just challenge it prior to the election (and, like, not the night before) and determine if it should be on the ballot in the first place? Is the whole point of waiting a financial decision (IOW, if it doesn't pass, you don't need to spend the $ to challenge it)?

[drmomentum[$]]

Well, first of all you have opposition from people like Kathy here who seems to think that sort of lawsuit is also a problem. So there's one hurdle.

And then there's the idea that a vote might happen before a lawsuit effort can be organized.

And then there's the possibility that nobody thinks a measure has a chance of passing.

Heck - it costs money to sue. If the voters have a good chance of stopping it you might not have to spend that cash and it can be applied to other priorities.

-JP

[AuntieEmma[$]]

We have a lot of initiatives on the ballot, and it's pretty routine for them to be challenged in court after they pass.

Redlass said

Is that possible? To challenge something in the courts as unconstitutional when it is only a proposal?

No, it's not possible.

I thought you had to wait until it became a law.

Right, you do.

[poseidon]

Hmmmm... I wonder why then ballot initiatives are removed in Colorado before they've been ratified and after the signatures have been verified and approved.