Shooting at Seattle Jewish Federation office

**hadassahchana**[$] · #1 07-29-2006, 12:38 AM

Pakistani man shouts "I'm a Muslim American; I'm angry at Israel,".

The Federation building houses many charities, and not all of them are Jewish - they benefit the entire community. I spent a lot of time there when I lived in Seattle. This is so disturbing, that it has been brought to this country.

**Helen_B**[$] · #2 07-29-2006, 03:31 AM

What a horrible thing to happen.

**drmomentum**[$] · #3 07-29-2006, 10:39 AM

Angry at Israel? I didn't know Israel was in Seattle.

As soon as Israel hears that this guy's angry, I'm sure they'll take it into consideration. Especially since he expressed himself so thoughtfully.

Moron.

realtraveller · #4 07-29-2006, 11:15 AM

"Moron" is the wrong word. "Hate-filled anti-Semitic killer" seems closer to the mark.

**drmomentum**[$] · #5 07-29-2006, 01:29 PM

For the record, I still like "moron" for my own lyrical purposes. But you're welcome to choose your own words. There are lots of them in the dictionary, you might have noticed.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #6 07-29-2006, 02:57 PM

Geez, why can't we all get along? He could be both, am I right?

Ok, not-funny subject. But still.

**drmomentum**[$] · #7 07-30-2006, 01:08 AM

They are certainly not mutually exclusive. I don't know what sort of correlation you might find between them. I have long thought that prejudice is a kind of willful mental weakness.

-JP

**hadassahchana**[$] · #8 07-30-2006, 02:03 AM

I'm sorry, JP. I was trying to make myself not cry about this any more, and my feeble joke really didn't come out right.It was inappropriate. And I do agree, sort of, that it could be willful mental illness. It's just that even that is a sore spot - whenever anyone does something this horrible, the first reaction anyone has is to see if the murderer is mentally ill. I know it's just a way to reassure ourselves- if he is mentally ill, then I am somehow safer - but it makes me furious that already, he is being paionted as a heckuva nice guy, only mentally ill. That means that downt he road, he gets to aim for diminished capacity - when it seems obvious he knew exactly what he was doing.

which is a ramblin way of saying that I agree with you.

**drmomentum**[$] · #9 07-30-2006, 04:02 AM

I was agreeing that they're not mutually exclusive.

and I think people choose to continue to be prejudiced, which to me means they are responsible.

robert lashley · #10 07-30-2006, 04:36 AM

Coming home from the library, I saw a group of people from the arab coalition passing flyers out for an emergency meeting of their group to protest US aid to israel. Playing undercover for a second( I live in bellingham) I asked if they are organizing meetings in Seattle and they said yes.

]They had to have an emergency protest meeting today. They had to take it there today. They organized an emergency protest, not in support of the victims in seattle, but in protest of israel today.

I'm sorry, but that's politically coded enough to make george wallace flinch from the grave.

"The arab american league's heart goes out to the victims."

surrrre.

frazzledspice · #11 07-30-2006, 11:25 AM

When I opened this link I thought, "Please God, let there be no loss of life." And then I saw that one person was killed and five wounded.

It's sad to think that such things may be necessary, but I hope that every Jewish organization, synagogue and school in the U.S. will step up security measures to prevent tragedies like this from happening again, whether by installing metal detectors, buzz entries at dooways (with hidden cameras allowing workers to see who's there before buzzing them in) etc.

The Catholic schools in my area have installed these security measures. Parents and staff are given cards for the keyless entry. Visitors have to buzz and be admitted in.

When my daughter was in elementary school in Missouri, they would hold "stranger drills" similar to fire drills. The teacher would lock the room and cover the door's window with paper. The children would hide under their desks until the announcement came that the stranger had left the building.

We cannot always change hearts, but we can take precautions against their harming innocent people.

Prayers for the dead and injured and all who care about them.

realtraveller · #12 07-30-2006, 11:55 AM

Labeling the shooter as a 'moron' (i.e. just stupid) or mentally ill is to partially excuse the deed. All murderers/terrorists are mentally ill morons to some degree. What I want the news reports to do is to go further and find out why he became a murderer? Were there influences in his life, in his mosque, in his organizations that helped turn him to hate?

This story seems to be dropping out of the news pretty fast. It's just a lone wacko, nothing to see here, move on.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #13 07-30-2006, 02:07 PM

That building was secure. Getting in required the murderer to force his way in using a 13 year old girl as a shield.

Last night, I didn't think this could get any worse. It just did.

**drmomentum**[$] · #14 07-30-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

realtraveller said

Labeling the shooter as a 'moron' (i.e. just stupid)

I never said he was "just" a moron. I said he was a moron. I think he is a moron. And I have already, in response to Cindy, said that the statement was not exclusive of anti-semitism. You're putting words into my mouth to further some weird straw argument, or perhaps a problem you have with me in particular.

Same with you're recasting of my phrase "willful mental weakness" to mean "mental illness," even after I clarified it as holding responsibility.

Your impotent criticisms are a misguided political correctness gone amok.

And I beg apologies that this is CE and not the Symposium, but since my chosen mode of expression was being attacked, and since I don't want to spend days clarifying and re-clarifying lest it bloom into an actual charge of anti-semitism, I thought it best for me to answer rather than bear fatuous, offhand attacks, and then exit the thread. Having said my piece, I will bother it no more.

If anyone thinks I approve of shooting up Jews, or excuse it, we can discuss it in detail elsewhere at an appropriate venue. If anyone has the stones. Bring evidence.

-JP

nicholmere · #15 07-30-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

hadassahchana said

That building was secure. Getting in required the murderer to force his way in using a 13 year old girl as a shield.

I could not find that statement in the article. Is that the correct link?

**theworm**[$] · #16 07-30-2006, 05:33 PM

and from the Seattle Times (because I don't know those other sources)

Quote:

Kerlikowske said Haq forced his way through a security door behind the 13-year-old niece of one of the shooting victims. Haq had been lingering in the foyer and stuck a handgun in the girl's back when she approached a door that's opened by a keypad. He shoved his way past her after she was buzzed through

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #17 07-30-2006, 06:56 PM

I had been worried that something like this would happen. It's a worry that has been at the back of my mind since 9/11 whenever there was a high-profile Jewish event, and more so since the thing in Lebanon started. There was a ceremony here last week to mark the start of construction of a new Jewish Museum, and I did think at the time that I hoped that something bad didn't happen. It's terrible to have to think that way, but I don't believe I'm ever going to be completely free of this kind of worry.

As far as the media characterizing the guy in Seattle as crazy, that's fine with me. I would much, much rather that the news be something like "Crazy loner goes on shooting spree" rather than something like "Member of local Hezbollah cell whose other members are still at large executes well-planned attack, so expect more to follow."

There are only two things I care about, as far as this man goes. The first is that he be locked up, kept where he can't hurt anyone again. Since he is being held with 50 million dollars bail, that's being taken care of. The second thing is that he not serve as an inspiration to some would-be copycat killer. And for this, it's a good thing that he is being characterized as crazy. I read somewhere that he had been caught recently flashing women in a shopping mall. The more the media emphasizes things like that, which make him appear sick and pathetic rather than strong and macho, the less attractive he will appear to would-be copycats, and the less there is to worry about.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #18 07-30-2006, 07:02 PM

Delia, thanks for finding the additional articles, and for not thinking that I was making that up.

nicholmere · #19 07-30-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

theworm said

and from the Seattle Times (because I don't know those other sources)

Thanks for the link. The poor girl must have been terrified.

Haq picked up the semi-automatic weapons and ammunition at two different shops the day before the shooting after going through the required 5-day waiting period to buy a handgun in Washington state, according to investigators.

So ... are semi-automatic weapons legal? Aren't they banned?

nicholmere · #20 07-30-2006, 07:36 PM

OT
A well timed coffee break ...

... Hynes and several others fled to a nearby Starbucks — and ran into eight Seattle police officers on break. Someone yelled there had been a shooting.

"All eight of them jumped up and ran out of the door," Hynes said. "That's why we had police presence so fast."

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #21 07-30-2006, 07:41 PM

Deep breath people.

- sometimes "moron" is used colliquially to indicate disgust of a person and/or his actions, not as a specific term about a person's IQ.

- saying "I don't see Fact X in the article you posted" does not mean "I think you are making it up."

- one only needs to provide one link to an article that contains a questioned fact; multiple links makes it look like you think the person who asked about it is a moron (to speak non-colliquially).

Might focus our anger on the stupid/crazy/fanatical jerk who shot up the office instead of each other?

mj
who has nothing but love for all the posters in this thread