Too much info???

BeastieGirl · #1 11-23-2002, 12:54 PM

I've been on Epinions for a long time (Dec. 99), and am just wondering if anyone else feels the same way about too much info...
such as:
# of pages in a book
product ingredients that mean absolutely nothing
how many hand towels they give you in a hotel room
and the list does go on...

Has this become the new standard for a VH rating? Should I be adding this kind of info to my reviews? Or am I just feeling left out because I refuse to do the same?
-Echo

magenta321 · #2 11-23-2002, 01:01 PM

No, don't, don't, don't do it!

It's so boring, and I don't think it's very helpful to real consumers.

If the number of hand towels provided by the hotel is important to you, then you should mention it. Don't do it just to be thorough. But, if you said something like "Luxury does not begin to describe this hotel. I was shocked when I realized how well stocked the bathroom was, right down to 30 hand towels!" I would find it to be a useful detail, ya know?

If it isn't important to you, and you don't think it would be important to your friends or family, don't include it. That's how I feel anyway.

BeastieGirl · #3 11-23-2002, 01:11 PM

I agree with some details, such as an ingredient that one could be allergic to, or if the towels were really fluffy and oversized, but whether a children's book is 15 or 19 pages does not really make much of a difference to me. Guess I'll stick to my current reviewing and write about what I think is important... but it makes me question how to write a review when all it really has is details and not so much OPINIONS, knowwhatimsayin?

BeastieGirl · #4 11-23-2002, 01:17 PM

I also have to mention that it seems as though the advisors have set this as a standard... do they count these types of omissions against me when rating MY reviews?

TheUnknown285 · #5 11-23-2002, 01:45 PM

I'm a fan of being thorough. I believe that if we're supposed to help people make buying decisions, then we should talk about all major areas for the product.

However, under most circumstances, those things you listed aren't really important. The number of pages can change depending on the format, dimensions, and type size. The only reason I could see this being listed is if the book is way too long or way to short.

Same goes for number of towels. Under most circumstances, it isn't important and shouldn't be listed.

sleeper54 · #6 11-23-2002, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeastieGirl
I also have to mention that it seems as though the advisors have set this as a standard... do they count these types of omissions against me when rating MY reviews?

magenta321 said...
"No, don't, don't, don't do it!"

I say...
NO, don't, don't, don't do it !!!

At least please don't do it in 'books', where I tend to spend most of my time reading and rating. Or at least don't do it for my sake...:-)

There are some who think we need to know the number of pages and ISBN for every book. (And I cringe every time I see that 'helpful' comment...:-) Nonsense !! If it is important to the review include it. If it is not, leave it out.

I have taken to handling it by lumping all that information at the bottom of my 'books' reviews. But if the length of the book was really important to my review I would talk about it in the main body of my review.

And I don't want to go near that 'ingredients' discussion...:-)

...tom...

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #7 11-23-2002, 04:36 PM

The last hotel I stayed at had a dirty towel hanging on the back of the door to my room when I checked in. Other than that, I didn't care about the towels as long as there were enough to dry me off in the morning.

Some details are handy. I mention pages only if it's a huge book so no one gets excited and goes to the store, only to find the book is so long they'll never get through it 'cause they don't do books that big. Children's books I can see giving page numbers for for the same reason. I mention the ISBN if I have it handy because the book shopping search engine I use gives the best results with ISBN as opposed to title/author. I might, might mention the typeface if it's one of those wafer-thin business/management books that seems to use a large typeface to break 100 pages.

Ingredients: well, I might include the main/active ingredients to alert those with allergies, but if someone has a rare, specific allergy to "Wqwesudnxheyt Pasjxyslhnhet," let him/her read the label on the product.

But if a reviewer feels morally or otherwise compelled to list ingredients, it's best at the end, or at least separated out by a bold heading and bulleted list so I can scroll past it quickly.

mj

sleeper54 · #8 11-23-2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mjfrombuffalo

--snip--

But if a reviewer feels morally or otherwise compelled to list ingredients, it's best at the end, or at least separated out by a bold heading and bulleted list so I can scroll past it quickly.

mj

'Bulleted list' ?? Have you seen some of those lists ??

Some of those lists would give usmarinecorps/Mark enough 'bullets' to last six weeks on the rifle range...:-)

...tom...

jsgoddess · #9 11-23-2002, 04:56 PM

I am completely uninterested in the number of pages a book has (unless it is somehow significant--the book is way too long or way too short), what the cover looks like, the dimensions of the book (unless it's just to say it's a coffee table book), the price paid for the book, where the book was purchased, whether the pages are numbered, whether the chapters are numbered, who published it, or what font was used (unless it's unreadable) or any of the other boring details that I have encountered in reviews.

Will I rate down for someone including this information? Probably not. But I might not rate and all, and if I remember the reviewer's name I will skip future reviews.

Julie

**pluckyduck** · #10 11-23-2002, 05:08 PM

Sigh.

Honestly, I swear to heavens, the only way to combat this drown your review with information overkill movement, is to do what you think is best and not blink if somebody rates you down because of it.

I mean it. Don't blink.

Curiously, Julie, I do feel compelled to mention the number of pages in my adult book reviews...I've noticed that trend, but, that tends to be a key factor in my enjoyment ratio. (I'm not reading great literature, I'm reading best sellers. Make me slog through 400 pages to get to an ending that had nothing to do with the previous 400 pages and I'm pissy about it.)

This information overload debate seems to flair up every few weeks or so. I think a bunch of people are just going to have to agree to disagree because neither camp seems to be making an impact on the way the other writes or rates.

Andrea

jsgoddess · #11 11-23-2002, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pluckyduck
Curiously, Julie, I do feel compelled to mention the number of pages in my adult book reviews...I've noticed that trend, but, that tends to be a key factor in my enjoyment ratio. (I'm not reading great literature, I'm reading best sellers. Make me slog through 400 pages to get to an ending that had nothing to do with the previous 400 pages and I'm pissy about it.)

Duck, babe, if you do it, I like it. It's the rest of the reviewers I'm talking about!

Really, though, if the length of the book is important, that's fine. If it's important to you as a reviewer, that makes it relevant. Hey! I even put a little disclaimer in my comment!

It's when the review starts with a little physical description of the book that I get annoyed.

"This book is 172 pages and is 5.753 inches by 3.814 inches by 1.352 inches thick. It weighs 9 ounces. Its cover is not exactly the color of a ripe lemon, but is rather a cross between a ripe lemon and the creamy goodness of fresh-churned butter once the annatto coloring is added. The font on the title is 20 point TrueType OlympianSlut, in a soft silver, not the glittery tacky sort of silver you might find on a science fiction cover, but a calmer, more introspective silver. The pages are faintly yellow on the edges, but not the lemon butter yellow of the cover, more of a daisy center yellow that is only on the very edges and can only be seen when the book is closed, so don't expect to see yellow when you're reading the book!"

Okay, so I'm exaggerating. If I didn't exaggerate I'd have nothing to talk about.

Julie

jsgoddess · #12 11-23-2002, 07:07 PM

I got so carried away, I forgot to address the other points. Andrea is exactly right: Don't blink.

Though I rarely see a book review rated down for the above sorts of omissions. I do see them rated down for not giving an idea of the genre, author, characters, or plot.

I've seen lots of reviews that are basically "I really liked this book and you will too." Someone will rate it SH and leave a comment. Then the reviewer comes in and says that they "didn't want to give the book away" or complains that they are expected to "give irrelevant details."

So, I think sometimes there is a misunderstanding about what the comments are saying. I have never seen a comment asking how many pages a book has. I have often left comments asking what kind of book it is. Maybe some people would consider the two "details" equivalent, but I don't.

Julie

BeastieGirl · #13 11-23-2002, 07:20 PM

I guess I agree that we can agree to disagree... it's just seems to me that there is such a thing as too much info- if it has no bearing on the uninformed, then why are we adding it? I am just as happy to rate a short and sweet review VH, if I feel there is enough info to help me make a decision.
This debate goes back to when I first started on Epinions, but even though people say they agree, I still see well known advisors rating lower on shorter reviews and adding superfluous info to their own.
:fire:

kidnykid · #14 11-23-2002, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeastieGirl
I've been on Epinions for a long time (Dec. 99), and am just wondering if anyone else feels the same way about too much info...
such as:
# of pages in a book
product ingredients that mean absolutely nothing
how many hand towels they give you in a hotel room
and the list does go on...

Has this become the new standard for a VH rating? Should I be adding this kind of info to my reviews? Or am I just feeling left out because I refuse to do the same?
-Echo

Gee, I hear you here, Echo. (Oops - apologies for the unintentional pun.)

I've kvetched aplenty about the liberal application of a ruler for a VH rating in books in particular. It simply has to be extremely long or else it won't get a VH rating. I got a SH today on my review of FURTHER ALONG THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED. It's a book that is so similar to its predecessor IMHO that I couldn't find anything different to say about it, and therefore gave it a maybe three-paragraph review. I couldn't stretch the review to include ISBN and number of pages and background on the author and all that kwap that people seem to want. But because it was short, and I couldn't find much different to say about it, I feel I was penalized. My writing style hasn't changed any.

(The good news is that it's visible in the database - most raters gave it an H. Therefore, the SH didn't count against the review even though it was from an adviser.)

But if you don't write the equivalent of a PhD thesis on a book or movie, you do get downgraded on the review. This seems particularly true in media, but a lot of people have griped about it in beauty (people writing detailed reviews containing long lists of ingredients for lip gloss, blusher, shampoo and so forth).

I wish people would start accepting short, punchy, newspaper-style reporting as worthy of a VH. I imagine the big guns would get a SH or even an NH if they put some of their reviews on Epinions.com instead of their daily papers. One doesn't necessarily need a detailed list of review "ingredients" (like how long the movie was, a complete cast list, the ISBN and exact page count on a book, exact ingredient lists for beauty products, and so forth) to make a review good and helpful for the consumer in making purchase decisions.

Robin Peters

BeastieGirl · #15 11-23-2002, 07:32 PM

I agree, if we took reviews from the NY Times and copied them here, I don't see any of them getting a VH, if they're lucky, an H rating... I do realize that this site is different a different source and there are different people reading the Epinions reviews... but if we stopped thinking for a moment that someone was RATING our opinions and actually using them as an information tool on the path to making a better buying decision, I'm sure we would see much different reviews than the ones we are currently seeing. Incidentally, can someone tell me what:
PVP/Dimethylaminoethylmetracrylate Copolymer
is? It's an ingredient that I found on a review (and I'm not saying this to be mean, or single anyone out... it's just an example of the point I was trying to make earlier.)
-Echo
(puns are accepted, it's something I've learned to live with)

sleeper54 · #16 11-23-2002, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jsgoddess

--snip--

I have never seen a comment asking how many pages a book has.

--snip--

Julie

I'll send you the URL next time I see this 'comment'...:-)

...tom...

jsgoddess · #17 11-23-2002, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sleeper54

I'll send you the URL next time I see this 'comment'...:-)

...tom...

Please do!

Julie

sleeper54 · #18 11-23-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jsgoddess

Please do!

Julie

Maybe we could take the commenter aside and beat the living he....err...I mean 'talk' to them...:-)

...tom...

jsgoddess · #19 11-23-2002, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sleeper54

Maybe we could take the commenter aside and beat the living he....err...I mean 'talk' to them...:-)

...tom...

You read my mind.

I would like the opportunity to offer a comment to the commenter, that's all.

Julie

wivabef · #20 11-23-2002, 11:31 PM

I would like you all to notice that I am staying out of this.

scmrak · #21 11-25-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeastieGirl
I also have to mention that it seems as though the advisors have set this as a standard... do they count these types of omissions against me when rating MY reviews?

I don't offhand know any advisors who have a set list of details that they expect before they'll issue a top rating. What I do know is that over the three years you were in hiatus, the standard for receiving top ratings has risen. Virtually all Advisors in any category expect comprehensive reviews, and not meeting that minimum standard will not get you a VH.

Specifically addressing books, I can tell you that all Advisors expect you to supply both a plot synopsis and an analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the book. You're not expected to write a thesis-level critique of the author's use of symbolism, but you're at least expected to share with your audience why the book had a positive or negative effect on you. Putting that in the pros and cons section isn't sufficient, you need to enlarge upon it.

HTH.

-30-

rex