Gifted Program

cristina1 · #1 08-06-2006, 11:13 PM

Today, my son was helping me get things together when he found an old award certificate of mine from when I was in the gifted program at school. He immediately puffed his chest out and exclaimed more than asked, "What were YOU doing in that program?!" Considering I've already determined that being around kids lowers my IQ, I let that slide.

"I'm not in the gifted program. Three kids from my class are, and I kick their butts in all areas." I never knew this was an issue with him. I guess it is. I do know that he is smart and thinks outside the box. He is also very competitive - he gets upset over a 95 if someone scored higher than him.

We are going to be moving soon (without a major miracle) and if I get him recognized as gifted, I could have that carried over to the new school. So, what should I do? I'm not sure that I'm impressed with this program if it's the assertion of the parent and not the child's grades that gives entrance.

**Prepoia**[$] · #2 08-06-2006, 11:28 PM

Having good grades is not really very important in the gifted program. I've had gifted students that had terrible grades because they didn't do homework or were gifted in a different content area. It's more about how they think and problem solve...sometimes they are gifted in all areas and sometimes they are just gifted in creative studies...and sometimes they are ADD (in fact many are) and they can't fit into the box called school. Many are extremely intelligent and lack social skills with their peers. They just don't "fit in with their age group" while others are very social. Sometimes I nominate students that are extremely intelligent (not talking grades here) and yet have no friends because they don't know how to fit into a group and get friends. Most gifted programs include and element of socialization that's essential.

Qualifying here is based on teacher recommendation and/or a test that is given in certain grades. If parents request it, the test is given and usually past teachers are asked for input. Smart because you study a lot is somewhat different than smart because they are gifted.

I'd definitely go for it from your description of your son. Having a child qualified for this may open options for best classes scenario at the next school. It's always good to give yourself options and Plan B's.

**thinkerlady**[$] · #3 08-07-2006, 12:05 AM

In PA, qualifiying first is by state standards, then testing by the local school district. Defining the results is hard. Depending on the school they could have a "pull out program"--a once a week enrichment experience. Or if it is a more affluent district they could have an entire program for those who qualify.

I find that my "gifted" students, would not be readily visible. They are usually the ones who don't do homework, rarely study for tests, and never lift a pencil during class.

As a mom, and a teacher, I have also decided that I am glad my kids just went through elementary school, and weren't placed in any accelerated programs. They got a good solid basic foundation, and then in High school took all honors level classes or AP. They were confident in their foundation.

I'll bet it will be the same for your son, Tina.

**Helen_B**[$] · #4 08-07-2006, 01:34 AM

Tina, there can be real advantages to the gifted designation and gifted classes; it really depends on the youngster and the programs available. There is a myth that gifted children really don't need special programs because everything is so easy for them already. They certainly don't need any extra help with their academic lives. If that were truly the case, I would expect that the suicide rates for gifted adolescents would be average for the age group, and not higher as they tend to be.

People can be gifted and still have learning disabilites, or different than average learning styles. The gifted/LD kids really have a hard time, because their exceptionalities often go unrecognized. A good gifted program can challenge the intellect while at the same time supporting the exceptionality. As a bonus, a special program allows interaction with other gifted kids who may actually laugh at the students' jokes, and appreciate unusual points of view.

Children with extremely high IQs can have a great deal of trouble fitting in, and can be graceless in their dealings with others. They do not suffer fools gladly. There can be a real advantage in a group situation that causes them to have to work closer to the top of their ability. They have a chance to see that being smart isn't everything, that there are other smart kids, and that what counts is working hard and doing your best. (They can start practicing being charitable to idiots, LOL, since they will spend their lives dealing with them just like everybody else does. Unfortunately they notice this sooner than most people.)

**Helen_B**[$] · #5 08-07-2006, 01:47 AM

I don't know of a program that would accept a child as gifted just on the parents say so! In the past, our school board gave an IQ test to all the grade threes, and were supposed to offer gifted classes to those students who tested at 130 or better. Since the method of testing was sometimes in groups, which can drop the score as much as ten points as opposed to private one-on-one testing, hard to say exactly how effective it was, but they had more than enough students to draw from for the classes. The separate gifted program was recently closed, in favor of whatever withdrawal enrichment students might receive in the neighborhood school. I was heartbroken, as this was such a service to students. However, it was always difficult for the "gifted" teachers, who were very isolated because they taught the "good" students. They were perceived to have an easy job. Catch ME volunteering for that--I'd rather herd cats!

cristina1 · #6 08-07-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

I find that my "gifted" students, would not be readily visible. They are usually the ones who don't do homework, rarely study for tests, and never lift a pencil during class.

That's Zack. We make him do homework, and usually he whips through it in literally one minute. The answers are right, though, except for the occasional mistake of misreading a question, so we can only tell him to slow down and take his time. Getting him to study for tests is impossible. He scores very high without studying, but I don't want him to fall into the "I never learned how to study" trap. He's the teacher's pet, though, because he soaks up everything and is very active in class discussions. I see him get bored sometimes, though, which isn't a good thing so young.

Quote:

I don't know of a program that would accept a child as gifted just on the parents say so! In the past, our school board gave an IQ test to all the grade threes, and were supposed to offer gifted classes to those students who tested at 130 or better.

We got tested back when I was in school. From what I was told, the school used to have the first grade teachers pick students for the program, but they had a hard time determining at such a young age. So, now the school does nothing until a parent speaks up, even if a child is truly gifted.

**thinkerlady**[$] · #7 08-07-2006, 11:32 AM

In PA kids are tested, roughly around 4th grade, based on their standardized test scores. Before you put him into the program, make sure it is enrichment, and not just "extra" work. If it is a pull out program once a week, it is probably enrichment.

Some districts offer a "gifted" track, one where the kids are truely taught in a different style and manner. They are taught as gifted kids should be taught. But not all districts offer that, because, again, it can be expensive for a very small few. Many opt for the pull out.

**amykhar** · #8 08-07-2006, 11:53 AM

A lot of school districts are doing away with their gifted programs around here. They need so much money for special ed, that a lot of school boards figure it's up to the parents to provide enrichment.

By law, they are required to have some sort of program. They get around it by making it a crappy program that the kids don't want to participate in.

If he's interested in it, by all means get him tested. Then, participation can be his choice. Just don't expect it to be all that enriching for him. The programs of PA today are nowhere near as good as the ones I participated in in Texas.

realtraveller · #9 08-07-2006, 04:44 PM

In our school system, the gifted program in elementary school wasn't anything more than an after-school enrichment program and a silly one at that.

But in middle school, the classes for the gifted are entirely separate and the level of work and sophistication of concepts was really noticeable.

In high school, getting into those AP classes is crucial and being designated as gifted helps. The AP classes get the student an extra .5 on the grade point average. Competition is so fierce to get into college that the extra .5 on an "A" is necessary in order to be admitted to a good college.

**conradd** · #10 08-07-2006, 05:19 PM

I had Shane identified in first grade, it didn't mean a lot in terms of everyday course work but it did give him certain legal rights. It required an IEP every year. I did a lot of volunteer work with the schools anyway, so I was able to work with the gifted kids for several years and that was a hoot. We did several extensive projects involving hypothesis testing, data analysis, story boarding, product development. I taught them the basics of relational loop analysis and they took over the classroom one day during health class, drawing relational loops of disease patterns. Their teacher had the good sense to sit down and shut up. One of my OSU profs was so interested that he visited the classroom several times to watch them apply the concepts.

TAG programs can be crappy. Or, they can be wonderful. Pulling community mentors or interested parents into the program makes the difference.

The worst thing was having the TAG program coordinator imply that I had him identified for my own gratification, not Shane's needs. She went on and on about a kindergarten student who was "truly gifted" until I mentioned that Shane taught himself to multiply by extrapolating from clock faces (there are 5 minutes between each of the numbers on a clock face and 60 minutes all the way around), and a week later was multiplying 2 and 3 digit numbers in his head. Gifted kids see patterns and relationships in unique ways. He still can't spell though.

**pippadaisy**[$] · #11 08-07-2006, 05:54 PM

I never in my life thought of that.

Deb, how did you have him identified out of the school? Did you request that they test him?

Our district has a "not until 3rd grade" poilcy which drives me bonkers. If you've bored a kid to tears for three years, then what's the point of them expending any effort after that? I never thought of using the IEP from the other side (I know, duh, but bear with me... I've had to fight the district for three kids for services to get them to their best potential from the other side of the coin).

**conradd** · #12 08-07-2006, 06:36 PM

His first grade teacher pushed me to have him tested. The school district tester was backed up for over a year (!!!) so I contracted with a psychologist from another school district to run him through a gamut of several different tests - think I paid her about $50 for several hours of her time. His scores were remarkably similar on a battery of tests and his composite score put him in the highly gifted category.

Check with your local educational service district to see if they have a resource for you. Like I said, it didn't mean much day to day in the classroom but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

*emeleel* · #13 08-07-2006, 08:57 PM

3rd grade?! Yowza. When I was in school, they had a strict policy of not til the end of 1st grade, and even waiting that long drove my mother nuts because she knew I needed more than what even my two sainted teachers could provide.

**theworm**[$] · #14 08-07-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

conradd said

He still can't spell though.

I'm gifted.

cristina1 · #15 08-07-2006, 09:24 PM

We haven't yet determined if Zachary can spell because his handwriting is atrocious.

Seriously, he can spell when he is being counted on spelling, but otherwise he is in such a rush to get what's in his head on paper that he misspells a lot. (He really does have bad handwriting, though.) He is awesome at creative writing. The kid has an imagination that soars. Unfortuntely, his interests are things of destruction - car wrecks, hurricanes, tornadoes, volcanoes. I think he is going to give Stephen King a run for his money.