Fighting "night-night"

[Magick1]

Holy cow, I have been having a terrible time getting that toddler of mine to accept night time. We have a pretty decent, and regular routine at night and I rarely try to shake up the routine. (once a month maybe, if that)

She is combative, has on occasion, tried to bite (not so much any more) but she will get mad, start hurting herself by pulling out a small handful of hair, jump up and down in the bed, anything you can imagine.

Let's say, I am getting tired of the battle. It's not every night, but it's frequent each week. The battles last roughly up to 1 hour, if and when they get started.

Any other tips, suggestions, ideas that you would share....they would be greatly appreciated!

[cristina1]

My kids either liked me to lay in bed with them, or to rock them at night. We let Nicholas sleep in our bed because that was the easiest way to get him to sleep.

I don't envy the tantrum stage.

[Helen_B[$]]

Likewise, our kids liked to be close to me to go to sleep. We rocked, or I lay down with them, or I read to them when they were older, or let them listen to favorite music. I would be rocking someone smaller, while I read to an older sibling.

[pippadaisy[$]]

I must be evil mom. Bedtime routine is um, brush teeth and go to bed. It got to be too much at one point doing much else with nebulizing two toddlers, dosing all the night-time meds, etc.... the bedtime "routine" would have had to start at 6, which was when we'd be eating dinner!

Also keep in mind that at this age, they will do anything that elicits a reaction. Buster was HUGE at doing things to hurt himself until I started acting like it was just another part of the tantrum.

Then again, what I've had to do isn't necessarily what I'd do if I had one. But with four as close in age as mine, if I had started letting one sleep in our bed, all four would be in there, and there'd be no room for me. LOL. Butter still sleeps in our bed about half the time, but that's it. The others take turns coming in to snuggle in the mornings.

[cristina1]

Zack was my child from hell. I checked him over to make sure he didn't have "666" stamped somewhere on his body. OK, just kidding about the 666, but he gave me a run for my money when he was younger. And the tantrums that child can blow! Wow. But, Pippa is right - I gained control of his tempers by walking away. It was attention grabbers.

But, at bedtime, he needed a lot of attention. He loved me to lay with him, or rock him until he fell asleep.

Even now at 9, when it is time for bed he wants me to read with him, or get him a glass of water, or hear his stories. I give him a half an hour and then he can have an additional half hour to read by himself. After that, it's lights out with no negotiations.

The two little ones really weren't a major problem at bedtime, but they had each other. They're 18 months apart, and were inseparable. For the longest time (Devon must have been 3 and Nicholas 2) they slept in the same twin bed. Neither could sleep without the other one. Now, they still share a room, but they sleep in different bunks and one will go to bed without the other. Maybe you need to have another child to keep her company?

The other thing that I can think of is that they have to have some form of white noise. We keep a fan running in their room. A noisy fan. They can't sleep without it. One time, their fan broke, and the new one we bought was very quiet. Imagine the look on the clerk's face when we returned it because it didn't make enough noise. A noisy fan and a nightlight, or no sleeping.

[Magick1]

We do actually rock with her or stay in the room with her at night. She is definitely grabbing attention. Last night she was swinging her animal around like a helicopter & lifting her legs with her blanket up saying "look they are flying" and bursting into major fits of laughter. It was kind of funny, until she started the other stuff, pulling her hair when we told her to calm down, etc.

She doesn't come into our bed unless it's Sat/Sun morning and she's waking one of us up and cuddling for a bit. We always stay in her room. Hopefully, it will pass soon. I hate spending 2 hours in a night time routine by the time you do the last potty run, tooth brushing, reading a story and then the game on time for fighting the actually going to bed thing.

Glad to know that I am not alone out there.

[cristina1]

I'm laughing now, but Nicholas never used a crib. He either slept in our bed, his brother's bed or on the couch. Sometimes, Devon would crawl into the crib to take a nap, but it stayed up for a full year without the baby even going near it.

[jgibson2[$]]

What I'm getting is that this isn't a usual occurrance, but a once in a while thing. Something is different those nights, even if you don't think so. She may be more tired or she may be overstressed for some reason. You probably can't change that, but being aware of it may make it easier to deal with.

Ditto to those who say treat it like a tantrum, though.

[drmomentum[$]]

When we had just one, we just let her sleep in our bed. That worked most of the time, although there were times we also had to play music, and there were the times that she would stand up in bed and play with the headboard or bang on the wall or dance around. It annoyed me no end at the time, but I look back through the foggy glass of time with fondness at it now.

I know a lot of parents resist having the kids get used to sleeping in the parents' bed, but for us it was simply a matter of what we were willing to do to have the household running smoothly. When she got older, she had her own room and we started giving out bedtime coupons; you get to keep the coupon if you stay in bed once you've been tucked.

Collect so many coupons and you could take a trip to the dollar store (or whatever).

-JP

[murasaki]

I haven't had to do this but my friend gave this a try when her toddler was recalcitrant about going to bed: she told her daughter that she would stay in the room with her until she fell asleep as long as her daughter lay down in the bed and was quiet. This did not mean no movement at all, but certainly not kicking her legs in the air or the like. If her daughter talked or played or got out of bed, my friend left the room (her daughter was not able to open the door to let herself out). It actually took a couple of nights for this technique to have any effect, but it worked.

Rory never wants to take a nap on the weekends, but I put her in the crib anyway with some books and soft toys. She can play as much as she wants (and her room, even with the shades drawn is still fairly light during the afternoon), but she has to stay in the crib for naptime. She usually conks out in 15 minutes or so.

[mtomm[$]]

Another thing you'll want to try is to talk about what you expect long before bedtime.

[Magick1]

Thanks for the added tips. The babester usually does this about 2 - 3 times a week, not a daily thing, but not once a week either.

Normally, we have the routine night time stuff that we do keep the same and normally either pops or I stay with her while she's falling asleep. We let her have the choice if she wants to be held and rocked or if she wants to lay down with us near by until she falls asleep.

We have a air purifier in her room to help with the white noise & to block out some of the traffic outside, as her room is on the street side & the windows & insulation here stink and you can hear a lot if it's quiet in the house.

I always make sure to give her a lot of warning and we have either tried using the clock in the kitchen that sings every hour (when lights are on) or even tried the timer so she can grasp the time better, but she must be more worn out from daycare and she just blows a gasket some nights.

I do appreciate the tips from everyone, really I do. It gets tiring sometimes, as I am the only one normally having to deal with these issues, as hubby works late at night and usually isn't home to deal with the night time routine and getting babester down for a restful night's sleep and I likely am just needing to know others out there have had this and possibly other tips like you are have been sharing.

Thanks again.

[Helen_B[$]]

Something I didn't know when mine were small was how disruptive to bedtime not enough sleep was. There are the little ones that need (according to some of my friends, anyway) relentless shortening of daytime naps, in order to achieve a regular, reasonable bedtime. Some kids have very low sleep needs. Then, there are the other ones, who if they don't get a proper nap or quiet time during the day just can't settle down at night because they are too wound up and over stimulated. Too bad you can't push a button and get a read-out.
The other thing that really jacks some kids up is diet: eating artificially colored or flavoured foods, too much or any sugar, even too much 100% fruit juice, and for some kids eating anything at all containing their personal allergen. (Dairy products seem to be great for producing restlessness in some children, but anything could work that way.)

[cristina1]

If she is worn out from daycare, have you tried putting her to bed a half an hour earlier? Perhaps she is getting so overtired that she can't sleep. Also, Helen brought up excellent points about naps. Talk to the daycare about what her nap schedule is and then go from there.

[Magick1]

Baby hasn't taken weekend naps for about 1 1/2 years, but we have quiet time. She was, until about 2 - 3 months ago, regularly taking naps in daycare, but mostly now she does not.

She will have to lay quietly while the others sleep, so she's getting some quiet time. I usually get her down about 7:00ish on the weekends and the same weeknights. That has been tough though, because I am not even picking her up from daycare unfortunately until 5:30 or so, fixing supper, doing baths, etc, and bing bango bongo, it's night time. My new job I work almost 2 hours later than I used to or 1 hour later when the previous job changed just shortly before I left them in August.

I don't have much leeway to move up her night time weeknights due to barely getting supper in her and then it's already bed time, basically.
Some of the acting out might have started roughly when I changed jobs, but I know she had instances prior to that, but memory serves, they did not seem this frequent.

I wish I could have found better hours, but I took something hoping to get out of the heck I was facing to something better, but the hours were 8 - 4:30.

That does kind of stink when you compare it to my other 6 - 2:30 or even 7 - 3:30 shifts that I had previously. But, that job was killing me, inside and I hate who it was making me become. When I had one of those shifts though, that would give the babester and I plenty of time to play, fix supper, do crafts, read books, play candyland, memory cards, etc, something we don't get a lot of time to do unless it's the weekend.

Sorry to keep unloading, but I am constantly trying to think of all of the things that could be making her unhappy or exhausted and when you all mention things, it triggers something else.

I bet you all did not know this would be a therapy help session did you all when you responded?

[cristina1]

Vent away. Sometimes parenting comes down to trial and error to see what works and what doesn't. And sometimes we never figure it out, but they grow out of the stage anyway.

Now that you mention your longer hours, could she possibly just want more time with you?

[Magick1]

Longer hours and more time with me, it would not surprise me in the slightest. That's why I make sure I spend all of the time with her that I possibly can on the weekends, taking her everywhere with me, etc.

But, I cannot risk longer hours at night because she gets, what I call "punch drunk" and giggles crazily because she so doggone tired she cannot see straight.

When she would nap at daycare, we could get an extra hour in, but since she's weanin herself of that, 7 is the latest I dare have her up.

[Prepoia[$]]

It's important not to play the "blame" game with yourself. The point is "it is what it is" and both she and you just need time to adjust. She will...and so will you (whatever the cause or even if it's just a stage she's going through for no particular reason). You'll work it all out, it just takes time.