Melt Down Central

[Magick1]

I am not quite sure what to ask, but I will throw this out there.

My daughter has been heck on wheels again, all of a sudden. She's loving beautiful and then it's like someone flips a switch and everything is an argument, fight, up for discussion or up for the "no it doesn't, no it won't, no I won't" kind of whiny response.

Any ideas of how to nip this in the bud? She's pushing boundaries and we hold firm but she sure is being whiny and argumentative and it happens all of a sudden without notice.

Thanks for your help!

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

This may be out of the blue, but have you had her thyroid checked? My best friend's daughter was having sudden-onset tantrums along with some other physical symptoms that weren't put together until they'd gone on for a year or more and a different doctor in the pediatric practice did a thyroid test on a hunch. (My best friend also gets very moody and turns on a dime when her Synthroid levels are off, and she's in her 30's!)

[Magick1]

mjfrombuffalo said

This may be out of the blue, but have you had her thyroid checked? My best friend's daughter was having sudden-onset tantrums along with some other physical symptoms that weren't put together until they'd gone on for a year or more and a different doctor in the pediatric practice did a thyroid test on a hunch. (My best friend also gets very moody and turns on a dime when her Synthroid levels are off, and she's in her 30's!)

We haven't. I don't know if they automatically test for that when they do a blood draw on kids when they do their check ups or not. She just had a finger stick and the pulled a small tube for checking things.

I have thyriod issues, so it easily could pass on to her. Thanks for mentioning it!

[thinkerlady[$]]

Part of me wants to say it is normal. First if you are unsure of a medical reason, then get that checked to make sure there is nothing wrong....and if all is well, then honker down and get ready for the preteen years.

Seriously, she is going to challenge you. But you have to set her boundaries. As long as she doesn't cross your boundaries, especially in language and actions, then you just let her explode. She doesn't get her way, but at some point she will see that the explosions get her nowhere. Don't give into the arguments. It might be helpful to designate a "safe spot" where she can go when she gets herself into this emotional state.

FWIW both of my kids went through this. Their rooms were their safe spot. Usually within an hour after cooling off, they came around and were their own usually sweet selves again.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Oh, I agree on the boundaries/safe space/etc., but I thought Kim had put stuff like this out there before and thought I remembered thyroid stuff and all that. Even if there are thyroid issues, the structure and boundaries and such will still be necessary, it'll just be easier for her daughter to control herself when the thyroid levels aren't out of whack.

[Prepoia[$]]

Yep, good advice from both Angie and MJ.

[thinkerlady[$]]

A blood test is a really good idea--make sure nothing is organically wrong first. Unusual behavior can also be an indicator of childhood diabetes. It is best to rule out anything medical.

[amykhar]

Sounds like it might be fatigue too. Daylight savings time kicked in not too long ago, which could have messed up her sleep cycles.

[Magick1]

amykhar said

Sounds like it might be fatigue too. Daylight savings time kicked in not too long ago, which could have messed up her sleep cycles.

That has been a battle. She argues that it is still light outside and I must be lying to her that it's night time.

That is where I empowered her to check the clock (as she knows how to tell what time is bed time) and told her to check for herself if she did not believe it was really that time of day.

Well, she did but still argued that there was still much fun to be had! She's a riot.

She even backtalked her preschool teachers here about 1 - 2 weeks back and that never happened before.

[emeleel]

Always good to check for dietary problems as well. If it's just plain 5 year old defiance, there may not be any dietary relationship, but if it's actual tantrumy meltdowns, check for a connection to things consumed.

For Sean, it was Red Dye #40, for others it's other colorings, some artificial flavors, for some dairy, etc.

[Magick1]

emeleel said

Always good to check for dietary problems as well. If it's just plain 5 year old defiance, there may not be any dietary relationship, but if it's actual tantrumy meltdowns, check for a connection to things consumed.

For Sean, it was Red Dye #40, for others it's other colorings, some artificial flavors, for some dairy, etc.

I don't have experience with issues like these, fortunately. But, I am at a disadvantage since I haven't.

Do these things usually occur suddenly? How did you find out that these were issues?

Wouldn't stuff like this materialized prior to now? Any tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[emeleel]

With Sean, we discovered it when he was about 21 or so months old. We didn't discover it until he'd been overloaded with the stuff by accident - he'd had an ear infection, and the good ol' bubblegum Amoxycillin has it in it, I'd accidentally bought fruit *punch* instead of fruit *juice* that week, also loaded with it, I'd made him some peach Jell-O for comfort because he felt bad, also loaded with it. Sigh. Poor kid. He was having terrible tantrums for 1-2 hours, which often ended with him falling asleep, exhausted, even missing lunch because of the tantrum and falling asleep. As soon as I figured it out, cut out all the stuff I had at home and asked the doc to switch his meds, he was fine in just a couple of days.

The best way to look for any kind of relationship to behavior, whether it's food or something else, is to just keep a diary. If you're looking for a food connection, keep a food diary and list *everything* she eats, even a little bit. Plus keep a behavior diary, including times of misbehavior, etc. Look for time connections. It takes some determination to stick with it for more than a day or two, but it's the only way to nail down anything.

Then, if you think you see a connection, try eliminating the problematic items and see if the behaviors get better. Simple, really, it just takes some perseverance.

[emeleel]

Interestingly enough, I just a few minutes ago came across this at Time online:

Hyper Kids? Cut Out Preservatives - TIME

I wish Hy still came around here. ( http://www.eaforums.com/forums/healt...light=feingold )

[Helen_B[$]]

That's such good advice, Melanie. With intense little kids, often they are extremely sensitive to LOTS of things, from changes in the weather, to sugared, colored cereal. And it's amazing what is colored. I had to stop buying a no-name brand cereal bar because one flavor had red color added to the fruit filling, so my grandson Jacob couldn't eat it without going hyper. And any amount of sugar is too much for some kids. (We have a number of adults in our family that can't have much sugar either, or many foods that have a high glycemic index, if they want to be cheerful and have normal energy levels. Children are even more sensitive than adults.)

While we're on the subject of things that effect kids that go unnoticed, sleep apnea is a big one. Some children have obstructive sleep apnea, sometimes caused by enlarged adnoids and tonsils, which cause them to be very sleep deprived, resulting in symptoms very different from those in adults. The kids seem to be super charged, with a lot of physical activity, apparently to stay awake. They also had mood swings, irritabilty, trouble concentrating, and lots of fun stuff.

That being said, I recommend the book RaisingYour Spirited Child by Wm. Sears, M.D. This book is about those intense youngsters who are more of everything, who tend to got through developmental stages in a big way. These kids often need more help than others with managing their moods, often because they are so precocious that they are always trying to function at a higher age level than they can manage, hence the periodic meltdowns from overload. (Remember how you felt when you were pregnant, and all of a sudden everything was too much for you, completely without warning, and you were just done in. Think how much harder it is for a small child to manage feeling like that!)

[Magick1]

Thank you all for the tips and things to look for with her. She's such a bright child I really appreciate the tips.

I don't want to overlook anything. One thing in this last post brought back something that we have been watching with the babester.

On her neck on the left side, she has had swollen lymphy nodes for roughly 1 1/2 to 2 years. We keep going to the ENT doctor to check for signs of changes and we watch for symptoms of lymphoma to ensure and hope she doesn't come down with that. And, really, there has been no change for better or worse in that time frame.

Any ideas why these would stay a slight bit swollen and not reduce when infection (cold I think was when we first noticed it) went away? Any one else experience this at all?

I really appreciate all of the help.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Helen_B said

While we're on the subject of things that effect kids that go unnoticed, sleep apnea is a big one. Some children have obstructive sleep apnea, sometimes caused by enlarged adnoids and tonsils, which cause them to be very sleep deprived, resulting in symptoms very different from those in adults. The kids seem to be super charged, with a lot of physical activity, apparently to stay awake. They also had mood swings, irritabilty, trouble concentrating, and lots of fun stuff.

Oh yeah, I remembe when Redlass went through this with her son.

[Helen_B[$]]

Our experience with swollen lymph nodes that lasted along time was related to chronic ear problems, which caused not only outright infections (often with no fever) but intermittent hearing loss due to the eustachian tubes being blocked, causing a vacuum behind the ear drums. The effect on the child was of hearing as if he had stuck a finger in his ear. This came and went. The words "retracted ear drum" struck terror in my heart. I learned to ask if there was a light reflex, that is, the pearly shiny color of a healthy eardrum, not a "dull" one with potential for fluid behind it. Dealing with chronic hearing loss and continually fighting off a potential ear infection makes for a very irritable kid.

In our family this was largely related to food allergies, primarily dairy, and the symptoms didn't really kick in until around age four, a common situation for allergic kids. The symptoms travel around, and are worse at some ages than others. Don't know why. That's why babies who had reflux or colic or eczema from dairy products and "outgrew" it can become ill with asthma, or ear or throat infections from the same foods when they get a little older.

[Magick1]

I have been kind of watching what she eats, when, and when reactions happen, but there isn't any consistency. I just think she's acting out.

We moved her bed time back a little later to take out some of the fight because "it's light outside" but we did not give up a lot of the time. Hubby's letting her sleep in a bit later in the AM to make up the sleep difference.

We've had a couple of smaller squabbles this week, but nothing like the weeks before. Maybe she's cooling down, realizing we are not going to change our minds about stuff and realizing it's not worth it.

Thanks again for everyone's input! I really appreciate it!

[lynnzop[$]]

I think there's a full moon. Son suddenly came down with a case of "I want it I want it I want it" the other day and I was astounded. He sounded just like a toddler having a temper tantrum over a pack of gum that I wouldn't buy him.

Sheesh.