EA Book Club June 2004: Watership Down, by Richard Adams - Page 2

**theworm**[$] · #41 06-13-2004, 11:36 PM

Ariane,
Don't apologize for some of us struggling with the book! This is a book that I've been meaning to read since high school

and never got around to. I love that you picked it for the book club, because now I'll get to hear what other people loved or hated about it, and that enriches the experience for me. I find that there are parts of the book that I really enjoy, and parts that really annoy, but the process of reading and discussing it is GREAT!

I think it was a wonderful choice of books.

**lynnzop**[$] · #42 06-14-2004, 09:02 AM

I'd agree with Delia that you shouldn't feel bad about picking the book, Ariane (I've been feeling bad about struggling with it!!!). As I've been reading (I'm about 2/3 done), I've been coming up with some potential "topics" or questions...I need to write them down so I don't forget them...because I do think it's a book that invokes discussion.

Reminds me a bit of Animal Farm, which I haven't read for some time, so I don't find the rabbits v. human protagonists to be a difficult jump...I can't really put my finger on why I'm struggling with the book at this point.

Lynn

arianej · #43 06-14-2004, 02:20 PM

Thanks, guys. I just felt a tad guilty because I hoped the pick would be a bit more pleasurable, although I'm glad if people get some discussion out of what didn't work for them re: the story. I'd be interested in hearing that, too!

FWIW (and I'm not being sarcastic here), there is also an animated movie of Watership Down. I remember watching it when I was very little and my parents didn't realize that a cartoon about bunnies wasn't always going to be cheerful. I wonder if it might help readers to distinguish between the different rabbit personalities a bit more. I know that seeing Jane Austen film adaptations helped me put a face with the character, which in turn helped with readability immensely.

Ariane

**lynnzop**[$] · #44 06-14-2004, 02:44 PM

Here I am with a silly quiz....

Well, it's not a silly quiz actually, and I scored 80% even without being completely done with the book. I do take offense with question #5. They have not worded it correctly.

**soxfan**[$] · #45 06-15-2004, 08:21 PM

Yeah, question #5 was for the birds.

I lucked out with 92% -- remembered more than I thought I would from the last time I read it.

murasaki · #46 06-15-2004, 08:28 PM

I got 80% as well, mostly because I brain-dumped most of the rabbits' names as soon as I finished reading the book.

Redlass · #47 06-15-2004, 09:05 PM

I finally got the book over the weekend and was able to get started on it. I haven't gotten very far yet, though.

jankp · #48 06-16-2004, 01:12 AM

Just finished it tonight. Took me a while because it wasn't keeping my interest too well at a stretch. I skipped the El-Hrairah stories. I like the word 'didactic' that murasaki used. It was written for kids in mind who can suspend disbelief better and who prefer adventure and good vs evil over more believable, deep characters and plot. Do you agree? Also found the pidgin talk quite irritating. Perhaps Adams meant for this to be read aloud to kids. That's my best guess. It's a great story for that purpose.

Jan

arianej · #49 06-16-2004, 02:44 PM

Yeah, the pidgin gets old pretty quick. But I wouldn't say this is a novel aimed at kids at all, even though I'm sure some kids may find it enjoyable. (I did, and my husband did as a child, and it's still one of his favorites.) For one thing, it's not a cute, fuzzy bunny story. It's a story about survival and finding a home, and it's quite dark in places. I'm not a parent, but I can think of a few who probably wouldn't want to read about some of the events in the book to their little ones. I omit mentioning specifics so as not to spoil it for anyone, but the examples should be obvious, yikes! Perhaps a very mature child.

And do you really think the average kid would get all those eipgraphs Adams puts in every chapter, quoting from various and sometimes obscure literary sources? I would think those would be lost on children. The quotes are chosen for their relevance to the ongoing story, and would be more likely to be appreciated by an adult... preferably a well-read adult!

Maybe it's because I've read this book several times over the course of my lifetime, but I finished it last night and was again moved by the story as a whole, and Adams' effort into making his characters and culture come to life. For me, the characters do feel real, and I can't help but be caught up in their adventures. The El-Ahairah stories are icing on the cake.

jankp · #50 06-16-2004, 03:13 PM

No, it's not a cute little bunny story. I'm not saying very young children would like much of it, but some of it like the El-Ahaireh stories. I was thinking of how they'd more enjoy the pidgin talk read aloud to them. I don't know. I'm not sure but Adams wasn't trying to appeal to all ages. Yes, those literary quotes at the beginning would fly over kids' heads and frankly they did over mine! Well, most of them. I'd like to know if anyone appeciated them and if it helped you to more enjoy the book.

Jan

**lynnzop**[$] · #51 06-16-2004, 03:25 PM

I have skipped over most of the literary quotes. The pidgin didn't bother me that much, and I must say that the last 150 or so pages are much more engaging than most of the rest of the book. At the point that Hazel decides they need some does (well duh, that occurred to me long before that point) and there is a little action in the story instead of the bunnies just hopping around, it got more interesting. I'm finding myself much less inclined to set it down and go do something else.

Still have a bit to finish it up, but I guess I'd say if you are midway or better, keep reading. Story moves along a bit faster as you get into the Efefra(?) section where they steal the does.

Lynn

arianej · #52 06-16-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

jankp said

Yes, those literary quotes at the beginning would fly over kids' heads and frankly they did over mine! Well, most of them. I'd like to know if anyone appeciated them and if it helped you to more enjoy the book.

I liked them. Maybe I didn't get all of them, but I enjoyed reading them and figuring out how they related to the chapter and the events at hand. The first one was especially neat:

Chorus: Why do you cry out thus, unless at some vision of horror?
Cassandra: The house reeks of death and dripping blood.
Chorus: How So? 'Tis but the odor of the altar sacrifice.
Cassandra: The stench is like a breath from the tomb.

--Aeschylus, Agamemnon

Or when they first come upon Cowslip's warren:

In the afternoon they came to a land
In which it seemed always afternoon.
All round the coast the languid air did swoon,
Breathing like one that hath a weary dream.

--Tennyson, The Lotus-Eaters

To appreciate the first quote, a reader would have to know that Cassandra was a prophetess who was cursed by the gods to prophesy, but to never be believed. It was she who foretold the doom of Troy re: the Trojan Horse, but nobody listened and the city was destroyed. It's obviously meant to give us some foreshadowing about the significance of Fiver's warning about the danger to the warren.

To appreciate the second reference, a reader would have to know about the adventures of Odysseus, when we and his men were trying to make their way home to Ithaca. At one point, they landed on the isle of the lotus eaters where the people ate flowers that made them sleepy and forgetful. Some of Odysseus' sailors were lured into this existence of false contentment, because it wasn't what it seemed. If they'd given into this seemingly idyllic existence, they would've never achieved their goal. Ditto the rabbits and Cowslip's warren.

That's why I don't think kids would be best equipped to appreciate that. Adams is very deliberately drawing parallels between the rabbits' quest and heroic epics, and I think he's trying to get us to take the story more seriously. But not all of them are serious, some of the quotes are actually humorous. They definitely add to my pleasure in reading the story, because I'm curious to see what quote Adams will come up with next!

Ariane

**lynnzop**[$] · #53 06-22-2004, 09:18 AM

Done.

I did like the ending. It was a bit more subdued than the last few chapters, but I really enjoyed how it wrapped up the story.

I know we aren't really into "discussion" mode yet, but the time of the book is nagging at me. How much time do you think the book covered? I was surprised when I read that the life cycle of wild rabbits is only 2-3 years (I would have thought Wormroot or whatever the General's name was

<---pulling a naomi

was older than 3 years old) and happened to wonder how long it was from the time the rabbits left their original warren until the end of the last "war".

Lynn

arianej · #54 06-22-2004, 02:16 PM

Quote:

lynnzop said

Done.

I did like the ending. It was a bit more subdued than the last few chapters, but I really enjoyed how it wrapped up the story.

I know we aren't really into "discussion" mode yet, but the time of the book is nagging at me. How much time do you think the book covered? I was surprised when I read that the life cycle of wild rabbits is only 2-3 years (I would have thought Wormroot or whatever the General's name was

<---pulling a naomi

was older than 3 years old) and happened to wonder how long it was from the time the rabbits left their original warren until the end of the last "war".

It's "Woundwort".

As for the time frame, I'd wondered, too. The book makes reference to the story beginning in Spring (May, to be exact) and in chapter 50, it mentions that it is then October. So the main events of the book lasted about six months or less, which is a good chunk of time in the lifespan of a rabbit.

Ariane

CurtisEdmonds · #55 06-22-2004, 02:36 PM

Quote:

arianej said

That's why I don't think kids would be best equipped to appreciate that. Adams is very deliberately drawing parallels between the rabbits' quest and heroic epics, and I think he's trying to get us to take the story more seriously.

Or to get kids to read the heroic epics, perhaps.

*emeleel* · #56 06-22-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

CurtisEdmonds said

Or to get kids to read the heroic epics, perhaps.

LOL - well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I had no trouble getting interested in the heroic epics without the help of a bunch of fluffy bunnies.

**soxfan**[$] · #57 06-22-2004, 05:13 PM

Just got done. Putting aside my other reading helped me finish faster, but also resulted in the rabbits taking over my dreams two nights in a row.

**theworm**[$] · #58 06-23-2004, 10:05 AM

Ugh. I haven't been reading much, and am afraid that I won't get finished on time to add to the discussion - though I do plan on finishing the book.
I'm sorry - I really wanted to get done reading. I've mentioned in another thread that I'm going through a divorce, and that my life has been a bit off balance lately. Ariane - this was a great choice for the book club, and I'm sorry that I'm not doing my part. I'm enjoying reading everyones posts though, and I'm sure that they'll help me to enjoy the rest of the book when I finally have time to focus on it.

Redlass · #59 06-24-2004, 12:24 PM

Finished reading this on my business trip. Once I got into it, it was highly engrossing.

I'm looking forward to coming back and jumping into the discussion as soon as I get caught up at work.

**MrsNormanMaine**[$] · #60 06-24-2004, 12:49 PM

I think Adams was very interested in the way actual human deeds get transformed into the stuff of legend and myth. The adventures of the rabbits, while not that far out of the ordinary, become part of the El-Ahreirah mythos by the end of the story, even within their lifetimes. While it's sometimes a bit juvenile, I think he gets the tone right, painting an epic canvas within a small area and time frame. (The way that say, Margaret Mitchell was able to cover the entire Civil War while never leaving the greater Atlanta area).

It was a much better book than most of the imitators that followed it. ('Duncton Wood' with the moles, anyone?)

MNM !queen

arianej · #61 06-24-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

theworm said

Ugh. I haven't been reading much, and am afraid that I won't get finished on time to add to the discussion - though I do plan on finishing the book.
I'm sorry - I really wanted to get done reading. I've mentioned in another thread that I'm going through a divorce, and that my life has been a bit off balance lately. Ariane - this was a great choice for the book club, and I'm sorry that I'm not doing my part. I'm enjoying reading everyones posts though, and I'm sure that they'll help me to enjoy the rest of the book when I finally have time to focus on it.

Please don't worry about it! It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life right now, and this is a low priority--as it should be. Take care of yourself, and come back whenever you can.

Ariane