Reading levels

[Redlass]

I'm compiling feedback from a survey we recently sent out and this was one of the comments we got back from a teacher:

"It is 12th grade reading level--totally inappropriate for High School."

She's referring to a textbook that is intended for seniors in a college prep course. Am I missing something here?

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

[thinkerlady[$]]

Color me confused.

[emeleel]

Maybe she means that the kids shouldn't be able to read at a 12th grade level until they've finished school, so to start out the year with a 12th grade level book is inappropriate?



Okay, that still doesn't make sense. But it's the best I can do!

[Redlass]

Reading levels are sometimes the most frustrating thing we deal with. It seems that no matter how much we try to simplify, break things into smaller pieces, add more graphics, etc., we're still told things are too hard. This is from the same group that told us she had to buy special lessons to teach her juniors and seniors how to figure out such things as 10s, 100s, and 1000s.

It's rather bleak news--both about the math skills and the reading skills.

How are people going to learn things for the rest of their lives if they can't read by the time they are about to graduate from high school? And should we continue to make our textbooks easier and easier?

[eris esoteric]

Ah, thank you, Bridgette. You see, I'd been recently degrading myself for remaining in the hospitality/bookkeeping field, rather than pursuing my dream of going into education.

You have reminded me again of why I have the perfect job already, and am happy with myself for doing something well consistantly.

[thinkerlady[$]]

Perhaps it is not the textbook, but the way the teacher uses it. I teach 7th grade. I have also taught 8th grade, and I know at that point most students are able to read the book, but a good chunk of them may not be able to understand and comprehend what it is saying--especially in Social Studies and Science.

I have long felt that students must learn to use a textbook. It is a reference tool. Yes, most teachers still believe it must be read cover to cover, but there a few of us who also read the chapters.

Even at the high school level, the textbook must be considered a supplement to the class. Presently (and I do not teach this subject) in our school our Social Studies program at the 7 grade level centers on the early years of American History. The text is an excellent source of information, has quite a lot to it, and it is well organized with good thought provoking questions and plenty of "thinking" activiites. But the kids have a terrible time reading it. Even the "good" kids. The teacher had to revamp her presentation, so that the text became supplemental. OTOH, I use the Science text from the same publisher, and it is perfect. It is written in a concise and simple manner, and the kids do well reading and responding--or maybe I have heeded my own advice.

End of story? A text is what it is. A text. a reading level in the upper grades really doesn't do much--since the manner the teacher uses to present and explain the material should be the focal point. Bridgette, maybe you company should focus more on the teacher edition part of the text--which has been my complaint with publishers for many years. A text series is purchased, and the consultant will come out once or twice in the beginning of the year. But in reality, it is well into January or February that the teacher begins to meet stumbling points in the program. As much as I hate teacher inservice, I would appreciate more guidance from our text publishers about our series'.

[Redlass]

And we're a small enough publishing firm that there is no way we could do inservice. Which is truly, truly unfortunate. We do offer teacher training and hold teacher institutes during the summer (in fact, it was at the institute's that the survey went out).

I do agree that the textbook is just one tool.

It's an interesting question that we run into. With this particular series, we provide a textbook, student workbook, teacher workbook, book of lesson plans, book of transparency masters, and a book of assessments. We also have a book that does nothing but explain the program and provide sample press releases, forms for exams, recruitment letters, articulation information, etc. We've really, really tried to create a lot of support for this program. That said, we are a small house and can't provide a lot of the individual attention that the blockbusters will do.

Also, we strive to keep our programs flexible so that a teacher can use the program whether he or she is teaching in a block, over two semesters, over two years, etc. So we shy away from providing too much structure that might make it unusable for some teachers. We offer three different activities for each section of each chapter and seven to fifteen additional activities per chapter with the idea that each teacher can customize it to his or her student's needs (whether it be interest or ability). But that flexibility also means that we leave a fair amount for the teachers to do.

I think another challenge that we have is that we have teachers who have no background in our field. They are often home ec or career technical teachers who are facing program cuts and are searching for something new.

But to go back to the reading level a moment: Our industry really pushed for us to create a program that would be college preparatory. We're a non-profit institute which is driven by our industry's needs. Our industry wanted us to help address a labor shortage and improve the image of the industry. The program is designed to prepare people to pursue this career at college (we even offer competive scholarships to those who complete the program--though we had fewer applicants last year than we had scholarships available). What we're hearing from teachers, though, is that they are not getting the students who plan to go on to college. Too many of the counselors are viewing the program as remedial--despite the fact that there are marticulation agreements with many universities who will give college credit to students who successfully complete it.

So we want to keep the reading level at a junior/senior level (we have two textbooks, one for each year). Unfortunately, we're being told that it is too difficult for the students.

We're about to revise the textbooks (which is why we did the survey) and it's a tough question we're wrestling with.

[thinkerlady[$]]

The program is designed to prepare people to pursue this career at college (we even offer competive scholarships to those who complete the program--though we had fewer applicants last year than we had scholarships available). What we're hearing from teachers, though, is that they are not getting the students who plan to go on to college. Too many of the counselors are viewing the program as remedial--despite the fact that there are marticulation agreements with many universities who will give college credit to students who successfully complete it.

Here is the problem, again, it isn 't the book. The wrong students are being placed in the program--if they are viewing the program as remedial then it IS too difficult for the students. Those kids that need remedial assistance, need a lot of guidance! If this program is designed as a pre-college program, then the more motivated, and more academically challenged student should be recruited.

Did the school buy the program as a "fill in"--hoping it will "fix" what is broken with the less academically oriented students? I know how difficult it is from experience (with my own children) to make sure they are in classes that challenge them for the expectations of college. Many high school classes do not offer that challenge.

I would suggest that if the program is written as a PRE college prep course, then the school has an obligation to use it as such. If they want something less challenging, then they should tell you so. Also, another thought, if the students are college bound seniors then they need the challenge!!

[Prepoia[$]]

It also sounds as though they are treating it as a "career" course. Most guidance, career exploration type courses don't get top students unless the counselors are doing their jobs correctly. Usually remedial kids that are looking for careers and not college professions take these courses and that reading level would make it too difficult for them. Most kids fall into a range not an exact grade for grade reading level. There are seniors who will be reading at 6th grade level (if they are low students) but most will be reading between 9-12 grade level. I have many students in 7th and 8th grade that read at college level (so I'm not as worried as the rest of you about college students of tomorrow) but I don't expect every senior in high school to perform at college level either. How can anyone expect that all students love learning and are good readers and want to go on to college. That would make this a pretty limited world. But, the school has to understand that THIS COURSE is aimed at future college students and high level readers. If a teacher gets too many that can't read at that level because the kids aren't being placed correctly, then that's what a teacher does, teach it without the book being anything more than a support for the students. Angie is right, to teach students doesn't mean "Open your book on page such and such" everyday.

Sandy

[thinkerlady[$]]

The more I think about this Bridgette, the more I think that the school is using this one way, and your company wrote the book intending it to be used in another manner. Can that topic be explored with the school without ruffling too many feathers? It seems they might need a skills program for the non-college but maybe college student, but sadly that student isn't academically equipped to deal with a program such as yours. Your program, as I am understanding is geared for the upper level, academically motivated student.

[Redlass]

Last year, we created just that program. We have a separate one-year program that is entirely skills based (in fact, students can earn industry skills certifications if they work a certain number of hours in addition to taking our exam). It's written at a much lower level and answers that very need. Before that program was completed we had another one, but it was pretty outdated (it had a section that encouraged students to imagine what our industry would look like in the year 2000).

So you have hit it right on. I guess we just need to figure out how to get this message out.

[thinkerlady[$]]

!balloon Glad to be of help!!!! Anytime you need an opinion on textbooks, let me know!!