Katharine McPhee Signs Deal with Devil

[pippadaisy[$]]

Well, in his disguise as Clive Davis. I see Burt Bacharach and other schmaltz in America's future.

http://people.aol.com/people/article...201554,00.html

[Joubert[$]]

Okay, I'll play. But before we play, I *think* Clive Davis has the deal with 19 (the producers) to do the first release on the top two finishers. Did it with Bo and Carrie last and there is already a stringed-up version of Hicks' Do I Make You Proud floating around even though the release date is a couple of weeks away.

Anyway, Clive. I know you've dissed him forever, and I guessing you can't stand Dianne Warren or David Foster or Carole Bayer Sager or any of that crowd. I get that they're not your taste. I get that Clive is EP on records you don't like, but do we doubt his A&R ability or at least give him credit for that?

He was the guy who greenlighted Janis and Bruce and Billy Joel and Whitney. The story goes that he had a screaming match with Barry Manilow over Mandy. Manilow didn't want it, but Davis was insisting it was a hit. (Was called "Brandy" then). Anyway, you may hate it, I may hate, it became a pop standard.

He also greenlighted Sarah McLachlan so she stopped playing coffeeshops in Canada and actually became a star.

He gets dumped by his label, starts J and finds Alicia Keyes and signs Luther and Rod Stewart.

Pippa, even if it ain't your kind of music, the guys is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for a reason. It ain't because of Mandy (but he was right on that one too). Say what you want him about him, but he has demonstrated for decades that he knows that the American market will buy.

Art is nice. Clive is in the music business, much like Simon Fuller, and this stuff sells millions of copies. You've played in bands, right? It ain't much fun selling cassettes (okay, CDs, these days, I guess) for $10 in the back of the room at the end of the show, right?

Edited to add: Next to Ahmet Ertegun, Clive Davis is the best A&R man in the history of popular music.

[pippadaisy[$]]

It's the pablumizing I find evil. Look at what happened to Bo Bice after being put through the Clive Davis machine.

The American public is force-fed a whole lot of crap while there is a ton of good music out there that doesn't fit the mold folks like Clive Davis and David Foster have set for the masses, and I find that a sad commentary on the music business.

[phoenixx]

I think Clive is useful in getting an artist's name out there. I think that in recent years he has over-produced most of his artists' records, and that his artists like Janice were just lucky to be found by him in his younger years. Much like some of his artists, I think he just phones it in now and puts his records into the most successful formula.

He has a nose for what Joe Q Public will listen to and will buy. Not all of America loves schmaltz, but the part of America with deep pockets for buying new releases cedrtainly snaps it up. What I find my self doing with his artists from the last, say, 15 - 20 years is waiting to see what they do with the fame he handed them once they are off his label. That lets the world see the artist that was waiting under the sap machine to truly shine, in some cases.

[lynnzop[$]]

Shameless public confession: I like Mandy. It's one of those guilty pleasures of singing full blast in the parking lot at Hy Vee while my children cower in the back seat of the car. And yes, I know the story behind Mandy/Brandy.

Okay, back to your discussion of Clive Davis. (A discussion of Clive Barker could be equally as interesting, but belongs in another forum.)

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Is this another American Idol thread? 'Cause I don't know any of these here people y'all are talking about.

[frazzledspice]

My biggest concern is that the song written for her in the final --My Destiny--was just dreadful.

Do I Make You Proud? was a much better song. I almost think that the songs they sung had as much to do with who won and lost as any other factor.

"What sells" isn't going to sell unless it's in a style that the singer is comfortable with. Part of being a good producer is knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your performer.

Didn't Taylor sign with Clive Davis, too?

And if you don't like Katherine's music, just don't buy it....

[Joubert[$]]

I agree with Fraz. Katharine got hosed on her final song. Last year, they made Carrie and Bo sing the same song. That's when I knew Carrie won.

Yes, MJ, another AI thread.

I think Pippa and Phoenixx both have good points about the over-production and schmaltz factor Davis adds to music, but you know, it sells.

I do think he was a brilliant A&R man.
I think he was an okay record producer and engineer
I think he is a brilliant marketer.
I think he is a horrible executive

And I think someone (Pippa, I think) brough home the point about Bo's album, which I didn't like at all. Now I think most of what Bo wants and likes to sing is 30 years old Southern rock and he would have been the best backing vocalist at Muscle Shoals in its heydey, but they did him wrong.

BTW, for whoever asked, I did look around the web and AI's producers and Clive Davis do have an agreement for the winner. It's just been the last two years that he has taken the runner-up as well. Now you'll all also remember that Kelly Clarkson ran as far away as fast as she could from the machine.

Another point to remember. Guys like Chris Daughtry are still under contract to Simon Fuller. Even had Chris joined Fuel (I agree, bad move) or went out on his own or joined someone else, he owes them an album. And he owes them a tour.

I would say that Clive Davis is resting on his laurels, but about 10 years ago, he got active again (which is when he found Alicia). He hated rap, but everyone in the music business in the 1970s hated when rap hit in the '80s. I remember a 5 minute Billy Joel rant about it until I wanted to tap him on the shoulder and say We Didn't Start the Fire is just bad suburban white boy rap. Like everyone else, Clive has finally realized that rap and hip-hop are not ony here to stay, but have really grown as art.

But America wants the warm and fuzzies. There's no secret to the timing of the album's release. The single will generate airplay up until the album's release in time for the holiday season. Typically, that's when you buy them for the little girls. I don't know how Taylor's demographic cuts across little girls, but I'm betting less than Katharine's.

If Davis imports some writers who can do ballads an edge, guys like Desmond Child, Johnny Reznik or Rob Thomas, a Taylor album could be very good. If he relies on David Foster, Will Jennings, Diane Warren et al., this album is going to be gooier than a deep-fried Twinkie

[pippadaisy[$]]

I'm not sure America really wants the warm and fuzzies so much as that's what they get. If that's really what America wanted, would Kanye West have sold so well?

As for the contracts with 19, they don't owe 19 an album. What they do owe 19 is a tour if they make the final bracket AND they can't release any music or tour on their own for a specified amount of time. The winner HAS to go with Clive (poor things) but the rest get a choice. I think he's going to massacre anything I liked about Taylor and try to mold Katharine into the next Celine. I think she could have been a great niche performer like, for instance, Charlotte Church, but I'm not looking forward to either of their albums. I am looking forward to Bo's second album, if he gets one.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Joubert said

I agree with Fraz. Katharine got hosed on her final song. Last year, they made Carrie and Bo sing the same song. That's when I knew Carrie won.

Yes, MJ, another AI thread.

Kewl, then I can stop reading now.

[Joubert[$]]

pippadaisy said

I'm not sure America really wants the warm and fuzzies so much as that's what they get. If that's really what America wanted, would Kanye West have sold so well?

As for the contracts with 19, they don't owe 19 an album. What they do owe 19 is a tour if they make the final bracket AND they can't release any music or tour on their own for a specified amount of time. The winner HAS to go with Clive (poor things) but the rest get a choice. I think he's going to massacre anything I liked about Taylor and try to mold Katharine into the next Celine. I think she could have been a great niche performer like, for instance, Charlotte Church, but I'm not looking forward to either of their albums. I am looking forward to Bo's second album, if he gets one.

Kelly's 2nd album was better.

I could've sworn what I saw was that they owed 19 an album, but that might be the show album. I will admit that I didn't read it that closely. Just saw album and assumed. Did see the tour though. And I'm sure there's an AI: Live album out one day.

I think that you make a good point about the dichotomy of music. Yes, a group likes Taylor, a groups likes Katharine, a group could care loss, a 4th group likes West, yet another thinks Allison Krauss is the bee's knees. My fault for trying to homogenize popular taste. Thanks for calling me on it. Heck, right now in the CD changer in my bedroom is Harry Chapin, Usher and Gretchen Wilson. I drive my wife nuts because I flip between 'em.

(So, like, when you were in junior high, did you make the S in KISS with the slanty lines too?)

[pippadaisy[$]]

Yep... second was much better.

And I was in grade school, not junior high, but yes.

[Joubert[$]]