Dean challenged on comments made at DC Democratic Black Caucus

[wivabef]

I had no problem with Howard Dean shouting back in February 2004. I never understood how his obvious enthusiasm could be considered a liability.

However, can somebody explain how the leader of the democratic party could make this verbal faux pas?

Dean was the headliner in Baltimore at a fund-raiser for Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings. In addition to outlining his plans for the party, the one-time Vermont governor addressed the flap that accompanied his remarks before the Democratic black caucus in Washington when he said, "You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here."

I'm sorry..."people of color" I thought was outdated. The hotel staff comment just really sinks the nail.

What was he thinking? And why won't he say "oops"?

It's like Dan Quayle has momentarily taken control of his brain.

[poseidon]

It was something that was incredibly insenstive and, quite frankly, racist as hell.

I'm not surprised that the comment isn't getting as much play in the press as it should.

[jgibson2[$]]

I've heard "people of color" from folks who didn't have both feet firmly planted in their mouths. I don't know whether it's outdated or not, but it was used to refer to people of many colors (just not Caucasians). The hotel staff crack was WAY out of line.

[brian_igo]

This was brought up on another board I use and a wise person there said,

Why don't you sensitive types ask a Black or two whether the joke was aimed at:

A: blacks,

or

B: Republicans

Sounds like good advise here, too. Lemme know what your results are.




Brian

[jgibson2[$]]

Brian,
A joke can be racist AND directed at Republicans.

[wivabef]

brian_igo said

This was brought up on another board I use and a wise person there said,

Sounds like good advise here, too. Lemme know what your results are.

Brian

The media DID ask two African Americans that I know of. JC Watts and Maryland's Lt Gov Steele. Steele said Dean's comments were "racially insensitive". Dean turned that into "I was called a racist in Maryland."

Steele's response: "I don't think he's a racist," Steele said. "He was being flippant and cute and wound up saying something boneheaded. A good number of us think he was racially insensitive."

[poseidon]

It isn't the "people of color" comment that is racist, IMO. It's the hotel staff comment that's over-the-top.

Whether or not it was a joke directed at Republicans (which anyone with half a brain can agree that it was), it was an incredibly racist thing to say.

[eris esoteric]

poseidon said

It isn't the "people of color" comment that is racist, IMO. It's the hotel staff comment that's over-the-top.

Whether or not it was a joke directed at Republicans (which anyone with half a brain can agree that it was), it was an incredibly racist thing to say.

Really? Why do you think so?

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

I hear people say "People of color" a lot, usually people who are, um, well, "people of color." And to me the comment was aimed at jabbing the Republicans, not a racist statement about the people of color - just my take on it.

[taurusmoon]

Moderators note:

Thread retitled and moved from Current Events forum to allow for broader discussion.

Carry on.

[realtraveller]

But don't you see, Democrats can say incredibly racist things and get away with it because....well, becaue they're Democrats. Principles? Pah, it's the party uber alles.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

realtraveller said

But don't you see, Democrats can say incredibly racist things and get away with it because....well, becaue they're Democrats. Principles? Pah, it's the party uber alles.

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with the Dean quote if a Republican had said it instead. Although the punch line towards the Republicans wouldn't have been as funny if it were coming from a Republican.

[brian_igo]

wivabef said

The media DID ask two African Americans that I know of. JC Watts and Maryland's Lt Gov Steele. Steele said Dean's comments were "racially insensitive". Dean turned that into "I was called a racist in Maryland."

Steele's response: "I don't think he's a racist," Steele said. "He was being flippant and cute and wound up saying something boneheaded. A good number of us think he was racially insensitive."

'Kay, a Republican former member of Congress and the Republican Lite Gov of Maryland think Dean was insulting blacks instead of pointing out the overwhelmingly pasty complexion of the GOP.

There's a shock. Has anyone asked Armstrong Williams what he thinks?

Nevermind what Dean said is factually correct. Ever watch a RNC meeting on C-SPAN? The International Leave It To Beaver Fan Club isn't as caucasian as the GOP. Since JC Watts retired the number of African-American Republicans in Congress has returned to its 20th century historical norm of zero. (And if you're curious...The number of black Republican officeholders in state and local offices? Fifty-nine, from coast to coast.) The number of black Republicans on the dais at its 2004 national meeting? Zero, and only two in the audience that I could see. And most germaine to this conversation, number of comments and threads about Dean's remarks at the BlackRepublicanNetwork board on MSN.com? Zero.

And I hate to point out the obvious, but go to any large hotel and I guarantee most of the service staff in housekeeping and dining will be minorities.

Some party of inclusion. I'm shocked, given the GOP's efforts in recent years. Like the black advocacy group it formed a couple of years ago with no blacks on its board of directors. Let's also not forget the charming, whites-only scholarship by a campus GOP group in Rhode Island, the belief by a Republican congresswoman that prohibiting gun ownership by people who've been in drug treatment would mean "you cannot sell a gun to any black person" and the direct connection between GOP money and illegal vote suppression campaigns aimed at minority communities in Wisconsin, Maryland and elsewhere.

While I'm fact checking...the "manical shouting" you mentioned Dean doing was only "manical" because of how one microphone picked it up.





Brian

[wivabef]

brian_igo said

While I'm fact checking...the "manical shouting" you mentioned Dean doing was only "manical" because of how one microphone picked it up.

Brian
[/font][/font]

I already have said quite honestly that I saw his shouting as enthusiasm and I honestly am flummoxed by how the media responded to it last year.

It's not the "republican" part of the statement that I would imagine "people of color" would find offensive. But rather, that Dean believes the hotel staff must primarily be "people of color". Of course, white is a color in some mediums. And indeed, the majority of hotel workers are white, at least according to the AFL-CIO. So, he may have been accurate about republicans and "people of color" but he wasn't when it concerns hotel staff workers.

According to a study by the AFL-CIO's Working for America Institute:
Whites in the hotel industry held 77.7 percent of the managerial positions between 1996-2000, while Hispanics held 6.7 percent and blacks held only 6.5 percent. Whites also held the majority of positions as bartenders (75.3 percent), clerks (71.1 percent), personal-service workers (67.3 percent) and waiters and waitresses. In fact, even the hotel jobs that leave calluses on one's hands and call for cleaning up someone else's filthy bed linens were in the hands of whites, not "people of color."

To me, this isn't a Republican vs. Democrat thing but rather a foot in mouth thing. In fact, not once did I mention Republican or Democrat (at least, not until this posting). I had even started a post before that attributed the onus of the comment to the fact that Dean is a northern new englander. North of Nashua, it's really a very white world, and I think many people make comments out of lack of experience with minorities that are innocent in nature. I remember during the "NH is evil and hates MLK Jr" days when NH refused to celebrate MLK Jr day, I constantly argued that the rest of the country didn't understand the issue was more that NHites are stubborn and unsettled in the face of change and not that they are racists. It could have been "Big White Dudes of NH Party Day" that was being pitched and the people of NH would have refused another "holiday".

As Michael Steele (an intelligent, hardworking and respected man, by the way, no matter how "lite" you think he is) pointed out, it was a bone-headed comment. In retrospect, Dean should have seen this, and been a little more hat in hand and say "I didn't mean to disrespect hotel workers by insinuating they are Republicans". That would have been a far funnier, and honest way of dealing with a faux pas. And I call it a faux pas. You'll also note I never said his statement was "racist".

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

wivabef said

In retrospect, Dean should have seen this, and been a little more hat in hand and say "I didn't mean to disrespect hotel workers by insinuating they are Republicans". That would have been a far funnier, and honest way of dealing with a faux pas.

VERY funny!

[jgibson2[$]]

brian_igo said

And I hate to point out the obvious, but go to any large hotel and I guarantee most of the service staff in housekeeping and dining will be minorities.

And I really don't mind pointing out the even more obvious fact that it largely depends on the demographics of the area where the hotel is located.

In many large American cities (Baltimore is no exception), the population is predominantly African-American, so the majority of people in MOST occupations, including service staff will be also. The meeting was in Baltimore, so perhaps Dean simply meant the hotel staff at that particular hotel and we're over-reacting -- but then he was a dummy for saying it in a public venue where people might not necessarily make that connection.

I work in a hospital in Baltimore city where I would estimate that more than half of the housekeeping staff, and fewer than half of the regular staff nurses are minorities. The minority nurses I've met are mostly working for staffing agencies at much higher rates of pay than the regular staff.

[eris esoteric]

jbgibson said

In many large American cities (Baltimore is no exception), the population is predominantly African-American, so the majority of people in MOST occupations, including service staff will be also. The meeting was in Baltimore, so perhaps Dean simply meant the hotel staff at that particular hotel and we're over-reacting -- but then he was a dummy for saying it in a public venue where people might not necessarily make that connection.

wivabef said

It's not the "republican" part of the statement that I would imagine "people of color" would find offensive. But rather, that Dean believes the hotel staff must primarily be "people of color".

So, what you're saying is, that there's something low or demeaning about working as part of a hotel staff?



(I'm sorry, I should have resisted, but I really couldn't)

wivabef said

I remember during the "NH is evil and hates MLK Jr" days when NH refused to celebrate MLK Jr day, I constantly argued that the rest of the country didn't understand the issue was more that NHites are stubborn and unsettled in the face of change and not that they are racists. It could have been "Big White Dudes of NH Party Day" that was being pitched and the people of NH would have refused another "holiday".

Having lived in NH during the period in question, I really don't see that one as being the case, but then I pretty much always blame Nackey Loeb for the whole thing anyway.

[wivabef]

eris esoteric said

So, what you're saying is, that there's something low or demeaning about working as part of a hotel staff?

Well, of course, there are those of us who manage to rise above it...

[eris esoteric]

Now that I have your attention, may I poke a hole in the basic assumption that it's racist to assume that there a large number of minorities working in the service industry, when in fact our economy is in a state of flux right now, and in fact, we are becoming largely a service industry on the whole?

In other words, it's not just minorities working in the service industry. Everybody's doing it. And it may not be racist to assume that only the very poor, needy and unambitious would work in the service industry, but it sure is classist.

[pluckyduck]

eris esoteric said

.... but it sure is classist.

That's it!

That's what bothered me about the remark. (To catch you up, I'm not a Dean fan but I'm willing to see what happens with his leadership. Something has to happen.) The remark bugged me, not to the point of skewering him, but it bugged me and I couldn't put my finger on it.

It's not racist IMHO, but the tone is classist.

Now, I'm reasonably sure I've said pretty much exactly the same thing in private company and I bet I've even used the "hotel staff" line, it's not a new line. The point of throwing a line out like that is to paint the Republicans as classist, but it plays much better over a dinne