What Will Michael Schiavo Do? - Page 3

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #81 03-21-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

jgibson2 said

This whole thing makes me wonder just how much bad blood there was between Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers BEFORE Terri was brain damaged. Someone at work asked if my parents would take my husband to court in a similar situation. It wouldn't happen. First, he knows my wishes on the subject - I'd want the feeding tube left in place. So do my kids. Second, my husband probably has at least as good a relationship with my folks than I do - and I'm very close to my parents.

This whole thing could have EASILY happened in my family. My mother's mother didn't like my father and tried to talk Mom out of marrying him. After Mom got sick, nothing Dad did was good enough and Grandma spent a lot of time waiting for Mom to get up and dance as the Shaklee Alfalfa tablets and accupuncture did their thing to cure Mom's MS

Mom and Dad both agreed to stop the craziness and to take back some of Mom's care (Grandma had firmly inserted herself in Mom's day-to-day care). However, before she died Mom was non-verbal. The last clear thing we understood her to say was "I want to die." Dad told her not to ever say anything like that again and Mom, having said what she wanted to say, didn't try to talk again. She died two years later. Anyway - Dad was not perfect and there are plenty of things from the past where he and I have issues, but he did right by Mom as best he could, and were they both alive and Dad stuck making this decision I would hope he would follow Mom's wishes - but I'm sure Grandma would be taking him to court.

**pippadaisy**[$] · #82 03-21-2005, 02:27 PM

Gah. *shudder* I'm doing the forms tonight for G.

My in-laws would do whatever was against what we wanted. If G says DNR, they'd say resuscitate; if I said resuscitate, they'd say DNR.

I also have to go with the common stereotype of many anorexics (myself included) having a controlling mother. Factor that into the equation.

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #83 03-21-2005, 02:34 PM

PLEASE remember to also do a Health Care Proxy. DNR/Living Will only covers life-threatening situations, it does not cover non-emergency medical treatments! It's used so the person you designate can make medical decisions for you if you can't - like if you're unconscious or declared incompetent for other reasons... Even the Shiavo case is also about treatment options, not just about resucitating!

says MJ the broken record who had to get one to make medical decisions for her grandmother - had Gram sign the papers one day, hospital declared her incompetent the next, otherwise Gram would have been wandering around the streets of downtown Buffalo

**pippadaisy**[$] · #84 03-21-2005, 02:42 PM

LOL MJ. I'm doing all of them. I'll have my neighbors witness. Do I need a notary, do you know?

**jgibson2**[$] · #85 03-21-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

pippadaisy said

LOL MJ. I'm doing all of them. I'll have my neighbors witness. Do I need a notary, do you know?

Don't risk it! Get a notary. Your bank should have one. Most realtors have them. One of your neighbors may well be a notary.

**pippadaisy**[$] · #86 03-21-2005, 02:54 PM

Just found our form on the NYSDOH site... two adult witnesses. I WISH one of my neighbors was a notary. Schlepping three kids to the bank to wait for one is a right PITB.

**jgibson2**[$] · #87 03-21-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

pippadaisy said

Just found our form on the NYSDOH site... two adult witnesses. I WISH one of my neighbors was a notary. Schlepping three kids to the bank to wait for one is a right PITB.

The problem with having neighbors witness it is that if the document is contested, they're going to get subpoenaed to back up their signature. It should stand up in court, but talk about a PITB.

erik_kosberg · #88 03-21-2005, 03:02 PM

FWIW, I think that this is a deeply political issue that may or may not be a partisan issue (but that memo may come back to haunt the GOP).

There’s a certain irony in on the one hand frequently complaining about those unelected unaccountable federal judges and on the other hand running to them when you want a ruling in your favor.

**pippadaisy**[$] · #89 03-21-2005, 03:03 PM

Am I wrong to be happier that it's in front of a Clinton appointee?

~ says the girl whose mother's boss is a Reagan appointee.

edited because I don't think my mom's boss, a Federal judge, would appreciate being called my mom's BOY

**jgibson2**[$] · #90 03-21-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

erik_kosberg said

FWIW, I think that this is a deeply political issue that may or may not be a partisan issue (but that memo may come back to haunt the GOP).

There’s a certain irony in on the one hand frequently complaining about those unelected unaccountable federal judges and on the other hand running to them when you want a ruling in your favor.

The situation is definitely political. I'd want someone to prove where that memo came from before I'd make any assumptions.

Presuming that there is a core base of voters with one opinion on this sort of case could be devastating.

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #91 03-21-2005, 03:48 PM

I'm one of those weird people, probably a minority, who if it were me in the coma WOULD want them to leave the feeding tube in, in case the doctors had made a mistake in their diagnosis and one day I might wake up, alert and refreshed. Well, probably not for fifteen years -- that's an awfully long time -- but I certainly would want to be given a chance for a while.

I wonder if I would have that chance, considering I wouldn't be part of a big drama like Terri is. Who would pay for it? Would my insurance pay? Would Medicaid pay? Seems unlikely either would be willing to fork over money for very long. (Sheesh -- if you have a heart attack, the hospital kicks you out in a couple of days. No lingering! No recovering on their dime! Why should I expect that they would be willing to provide the feeding tube and the bed and the nurses for more than a couple of hours, once my brain scan came back empty, much less for 15 years?)

Anyway, even though I'm pro-feeding tube, this whole thing with Congress being called back and Bush leaving the ranch is totally surreal. I just don't understand why they are doing this. Is it to set up a stronger anti-abortion argument later?

Oh, and I do think this is a partisan issue. As does the writer at this link.

**theworm**[$] · #92 03-21-2005, 03:52 PM

I imagine that social security would pay for it, and that you wouldn't be in a very nice place.
I'm all for feeding tubes as long as their is hope for recovery. From what I've seen, part of Terry Schiavos brain is gone. It isn't possible for her to regain congnitive functions.
If she is not cognitive and has no chance to be congnitive, keeping her alive serves what purpose for HER? And, heaven forbid, she is cognitive and is aware of what is happening but has had no way to communicate for 15 years - I have a hard time even thinking about that!

Sooner95 · #93 03-21-2005, 03:53 PM

Congress should not be involved at all, this is only going to open up more cases of this, then pretty soon Congress will be voting on whether let someone die or not, in which THEN people will be complaining that Congress is playing God. Well...you asked for it..

**pippadaisy**[$] · #94 03-21-2005, 03:54 PM

Emma, at this point, actually, it's the tax payers funding it, because she's listed as indigent. The money for her care is gone, and the money that her husband got as compensation for loss of spouse, etc. is shot on the lawyers.

Also, Tom DeLay hopped on this gravy train hoping to deflect some of his personal issues. At least for him, it's a personal agenda, and probably not so much partisan.

Sooner95 · #95 03-21-2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

theworm said

I imagine that social security would pay for it, and that you wouldn't be in a very nice place.
I'm all for feeding tubes as long as their is hope for recovery. From what I've seen, part of Terry Schiavos brain is gone. It isn't possible for her to regain congnitive functions.
If she is not cognitive and has no chance to be congnitive, keeping her alive serves what purpose for HER? And, heaven forbid, she is cognitive and is aware of what is happening but has had no way to communicate for 15 years - I have a hard time even thinking about that!

agree, cant even imagine why someone would want to live like that. Sounds like Hell to me. 15 years is a long time, to me, if she was going to recover, at least a little, it would have happned by now.

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #96 03-21-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

And, heaven forbid, she is cognitive and is aware of what is happening but has had no way to communicate for 15 years - I have a hard time even thinking about that!

Well, if it were me, and I couldn't communicate but I could lie there and watch movies or something, that would be ok. (Though since there would be no way to tell people which movies I wanted to see, I could end up seeing a lot of bad ones.)

Actually, this case has made me think that maybe I WOULDN'T want that feeding tube in me as long as I had always thought I would.

Still don't see what Congress is doing. If, because of this case, they decided to pass a law -- in the normal way -- which said that in the absence of written instructions there was a presumption that people in comas want the feeding tube in -- and, in the normal way, that would apply not to past cases but to cases in the future, that came up after the bill was written and passed -- I could see that. But what they are doing is just weird.

**theworm**[$] · #97 03-21-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

AuntieEmma said

If, because of this case, they decided to pass a law -- in the normal way -- which said that in the absence of written instructions there was a presumption that people in comas want the feeding tube in -- and, in the normal way, that would apply not to past cases but to cases in the future, that came up after the bill was written and passed -- I could see that. But what they are doing is just weird.

I agree - except for the word "weird". I don't think it's weird - I think its tragic.

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #98 03-21-2005, 04:28 PM

It seems to me more like farce than tragedy. The tragic part -- the woman in the coma, the feuding family, the parents desperately clinging to what are almost certainly futile hopes -- has already happened, a long time ago.

**AuntieEmma**[$] · #99 03-21-2005, 05:10 PM

Meanwhile, in Texas ...

Quote:

A Friendswood man in a persistent vegetative state was transferred to a nursing home in San Antonio on Sunday, ending a battle between St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital and his family over whether to take him off life support.

At 7:30 a.m., Spiro Nikolouzos, 68, was hooked up to a portable ventilator, feeding tube and other support lines and taken by ambulance to Avalon Place, which had rejected his application just nine days before....

"Thank God that was an ambulance taking Spiro to another health care facility, not another car taking him to a funeral home," said Nikolouzos' wife, Jannette. "I can't tell you the relief and excitement I feel that my husband is still alive."

Dr. David Pate, St. Luke's chief medical officer, said he was "very surprised" Avalon Place agreed to take Spiro Nikolouzos — more than 30 facilities had rejected him ...

The Nikolouzos matter and another involving a 6-month-old baby, whose mother last week failed to stop Texas Children's Hospital from withdrawing life support, shone a light on a fairly new Texas law that allows hospitals to discontinue such care 10 days after notifying family members....

The Nikolouzos controversy dates to March 1, when St. Luke's gave the Nikolouzos family notice it planned to take him off a ventilator and remove his feeding tube. Five days later, the family's lawyer, Mario Caballero, announced he would ask a judge to stop the hospital....

Nikolouzos' adult son, also named Spiro, acknowledging "mixed feelings'' Sunday, said it was hard seeing his father like that. But he added that he was glad his father hasn't passed away yet and reiterated that "a hospital shouldn't be able to tell you when it's going to euthanize your family members.''

Jannette Nikolouzos also expressed happiness that "Spiro got out of that execution chamber that is St. Luke's."

Pate said payment for Nikolouzos' care was never an issue for St. Luke's, contrary to claims by the Nikolouzos family.

Payment for Nikolouzos' care at Avalon Place was thought to be an issue; Caballero said in court a week ago that the San Antonio nursing home turned down Nikolouzos because his Medicare was about to be reduced.

No one could answer Sunday whether that matter has been resolved....

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/3094699

erik_kosberg · #**100** 03-21-2005, 05:15 PM

53 of the 58 who No in the House were Democrats.

[ wild_guess ]
In 2006 a bunch of those 58 will have opponents (or their surrogates) saying Congressman Flumplemeister voted to murder Terri Schiavo.
[ /wild_guess ]

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #**101** 03-21-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

pippadaisy said

LOL MJ. I'm doing all of them. I'll have my neighbors witness. Do I need a notary, do you know?

I believe you do, not for all three (HCP, Living Will, Power of Attorney) but for at least one of them.