What Will Michael Schiavo Do? - Page 8

**theworm**[$] · #**281** 03-31-2005, 12:49 PM

I could be wrong, but I believe the law is that the spouse was given the right to decide in this case.

**pippadaisy**[$] · #**282** 03-31-2005, 12:51 PM

Okay, so then it isn't MOST of our business. Wormie, since you are a Florida state resident, you can mind the Schiavo and Schindler business and the rest of us can butt out.

Or have we decided that the States can't make their own laws anymore?

**theworm**[$] · #**283** 03-31-2005, 12:55 PM

I just wish that the discussion could be about the law and the issues and NOT about Terry Schiavo and her family. If I remember correctly, Michael wants a cremation and the parents wanted a burial. Whatever happens, I really really hope that it isn't a media spectacle.

erik_kosberg · #**284** 03-31-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

theworm said

Does it really matter? Much of what we do in life is without absolute knowledge. Especially in medicine. People make decisions based on the best information that they have. Michael Schiavo and the doctors believe that she had no cognitive abiblity. Perhaps they were wrong, and yes, we may never KNOW, but its NONE of our business. This should have been a family matter and it should have been resolved privately as a family matter.

:appl:

frazzledspice · #**285** 03-31-2005, 01:11 PM

I am grateful that Terry Schiavo's suffering is over and she is with God. After all appeals had been exhausted, and her death was inevitable, one could only hope that it would not be prolonged.

I feel certain that we haven't heard the last of the Schindlers or Michael Schiavo. I'm wondering which book will be out first.

And they will both make a fortune from curiosity seekers.

**jgibson2**[$] · #**286** 03-31-2005, 02:28 PM

If either side makes money, I hope they'll give a huge chunk of it to the hospice where Terri spent her last days. From the videos I saw of her, it was clear that they give exceptionally good care.

**MrsNormanMaine**[$] · #**287** 03-31-2005, 02:39 PM

The media has completely diverted attention from the real questions in this case which were:

-Did Terri Schiavo have a right to determine her own fate? (Yes - the right to self determination through health care has been spelled out federally through the Nancy Cruzan decisions and the federla Patient Self Determination Act).

-Did Terri Schiavo actually make her wishes regarding her care known? (Yes - every court that heard the case found clear and convincing evidence that through conversations with her husband and other friends that she had repeatedly expressed a wish that she not be kept alive if she were in a state where she had no hope of recovery.)

-Did Michael Schiavo have the legal right to enforce Terri's decisions? (Yes, as her husband and legal guardian, a position that was never questioned by the court as no evidence was ever presented that he was unfit to serve in this capacity, innuendo and rumor notwithstanding).

This is why in eight years of litigation, the Schindlers never won a single court decision. They could not. They chose to engage the court of public opinion, and, through a very biased interpretation of fact, put out a specific message. This has let the genie out of the religious right bottle and once freed, it's not easily controlled.

I have a strong suspicion that we are entering on Act II of this drama with Terri Schiavo's death. The forces that have made this case a media circus still have very clear goals in mind. The dominionists who have funded the Schindlers use these cultural battles to turn public opinion away from the rule of law and the judiciary. We the people aren't going to trash the constitution for their utopian theocratic state as long as we continue to believe in it. Anything that causes public opinion to question it works in their favor.

MNM !queen

wivabef · #**288** 03-31-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

MrsNormanMaine said

We the people aren't going to trash the constitution for their utopian theocratic state as long as we continue to believe in it. Anything that causes public opinion to question it works in their favor.

MNM !queen

Amen to that. This time, though, the Constitution barely held up.

Ironically, it was not our elected officials, but rather appointed officials, who worked hard to protect our constitution. And from what I have read, the final judgement from the courts in Atlanta strongly chastised the Executive and Legislative branch for failing the Constitution. Thankfully, one of our branches of government carried through with a check and balance that our crazed elected officials could not fathom.

I'm thoroughly disgusted with the Republican party now, and will NEVER find myself working for them ever again. They are no longer champions of states' rights, but rather of the cause celeb moral issues. I cannot comprehend how we could hold an emergency session questioning the faith and loyalty of one husband who could have easily given up on his wife's wishes long ago and yet say they are for the sanctity of marriage. What Michael Shiavo did...THAT was marriage. I sure hope my husband could stand up to that circus that disrupted an institution that is supposed to provide its patients peace and tranquility in a desperate time in their lives.

They have reduced the image of Terry Shiavo to that of an aborted fetus on a picket sign. That is no sanctity of life. Instead, it is as if they threw humanity into a mosh pit and prayed for a slow song.

wivabef · #**289** 03-31-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

jgibson2 said

If either side makes money, I hope they'll give a huge chunk of it to the hospice where Terri spent her last days. From the videos I saw of her, it was clear that they give exceptionally good care.

That is very true, Judy. I thought the same thing and felt so sorry for all the patients and their families who had to share their painful transitions in life with a media circus.

**theworm**[$] · #**290** 03-31-2005, 03:04 PM

Did you hear about the women who raced to the hospice when she was called that her grandfather was dying? She raced out to the hospice in her pajamas to get there on time. She was held up in the crowds outside, then stopped and questioned by the police. She was only delayed 3 minutes, but she arrived one minute after her grandfather died. When they interviewed her she spoke of how the crowds there to "support" Terry were taking dignity and tranquility from other patients. Many many people were injured by this whole ordeal. Michael, the parents and siblings, mostly Terry, but also the other hospice patients and their families.

**drmomentum**[$] · #**291** 03-31-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

MrsNormanMaine said

The dominionists who have funded the Schindlers use these cultural battles to turn public opinion away from the rule of law and the judiciary.

This is what is most frightening about all of the whining over the judiciary and activist judges (which we know from observation over time means "a judge that makes a decision we don't like"). A dittohead nodfest ripples through the population, and next thing you know you have judges who want to murder people.

In any case, I fear "the debate will continue on" over Terri. But still in a vaccuum of the real issues you listed.

Terri has finally passed out of the state she never wanted to be in for 15 years. May she and her husband have found the peace denied her for so long. And may her family (who have been under unreasonable strain) get off the path of psychic self-destruction and away from the toxic people who exploited their grief.

Unfortunately, I doubt the media will give up its feeding tube so easily. (A Jon Stewart put it)

-JP

**lynnzop**[$] · #**292** 03-31-2005, 03:16 PM

I'm sure the ordeal is no where near over, except that Terri, whereever her soul has been residing for the past 15 years, is finally at rest and peace.

Have heard on radio news that 1) disposal of her body is in dispute (as stated by someone else, Michael wants her cremated, Schindler's want her buried) and 2) autopsy is in dispute (Michael wants one to prove that she was without cognitive function and Schindler's oppose).

Once again, these are damn personal decisions that should be determined by her family, not by the press, the government, or anyone else. While I've seen families ripped apart by things that any sane person would consider an abomination, I don't see any peace or resolution within this family. I simply hope that whichever side "wins or loses", they are gracious enough to step away when the service/burial/whatever is over, and attempt to go on with life, knowing they did what they considered to be the "right thing".

phoenixx · #**293** 03-31-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

frazzledspice said

My idea of a good law on feeding tubes:

A doctor explains all the ramifications of the decision to insert a feeding tube to all available close relatives (spouse, parents, children, siblings.) They all sign a document indicating they have been told the ramifications and understand them.

Then, at the same time, all available close relatives choose who should be the legal guardian in charge of making medical choices. It would be best if this could be unanimous, but at worst, a simple majority could decide. The vote would be recorded by a third party, and everyone willing (hopefully everyone) would also sign the paper.

What a horrible, horrible idea. My relatives, for the most part (with exception of my sisters) are awful, selfish, sadistic, neurotic, hateful, misguided, wilfully obtuse people - and that is being kind. I went to great lengths to CHOOSE my honey and friends because they do not share those traits and also to distance myself from my family. I do not speak with my family more than absolutely necessary. My sisters may be my favorite relatives, but they are a great deal younger than I, for one thing, and do not share my views on this matter AT ALL, for another. I would be horrified if they had that kind of control over my destiny after all this time spent freeing myself from them.

phoenixx · #**294** 03-31-2005, 04:20 PM

I am so happy Terri finally got what she wanted.

I also hope my honey can be as steadfast in such a time of turmoil for me if ever needed, and that if he finds a woman after me entering that state that she can hold up against unfair media smearing of her reputation as well as Michael's woman has. Was I the only one who noticed that he had found a woman willing to be his helpmate without marriage in order for him to retain control over his wife's care? What a strong person! Both of them came across as strong and loyal to me in spite of the rabid smear campaign. I do so hope that Act II is blessedly short so they can finally tackle their own lives with full attention.

**theworm**[$] · #**295** 03-31-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

phoenixx said

Was I the only one who noticed that he had found a woman willing to be his helpmate without marriage in order for him to retain control over his wife's care? What a strong person! Both of them came across as strong and loyal to me in spite of the rabid smear campaign. I do so hope that Act II is blessedly short so they can finally tackle their own lives with full attention.

No, you weren't the only one to notice.
Michael was right to go on with his life, and his new partner must be a very understanding and kind woman.

**hymie**[$] · #**296** 03-31-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

realtraveller said

We will never know whether Terri Schiavo had any higher brain activity.

Sure we do. Doctors who examined her found that her EEG brain waves were flat. She'd been that way for fifteen years. "We don't know for sure" is the way to weasel out from facts that are not to one's liking.

realtraveller · #**297** 03-31-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

MrsNormanMaine said

-Did Terri Schiavo actually make her wishes regarding her care known? (Yes - every court that heard the case found clear and convincing evidence that through conversations with her husband and other friends that she had repeatedly expressed a wish that she not be kept alive if she were in a state where she had no hope of recovery.)

MNM !queen

This statement is somewhat misleading. One judge, Judge Greer at the trial court, level decided that through conversations with her husband and his brother that she said she would not want to live hooked up to tubes etc.

None of the appellate court decisions revisited that factual determination. They could not. Appellate courts decide only if the trial court judge made some legal decision incorrectly. Appellate courts do not retry the facts of the case.

Had a different trial court judge been assigned to her case, the factual decision could have gone the other way, and again the appellate courts would have looked only to legal issues, not the factual determination.

**jgibson2**[$] · #**298** 03-31-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

lynnzop said

have heard on radio news that 1) disposal of her body is in dispute (as stated by someone else, Michael wants her cremated, Schindler's want her buried) and 2) autopsy is in dispute (Michael wants one to prove that she was without cognitive function and Schindler's oppose).

Have the Schindler's changed their minds? Last I heard, they wanted an autopsy too -- for reasons related to the smear Michael campaign, but at least they agreed.

They can have a funeral mass without the body. If they quit bickering and agree to make it PRIVATE, it's possible that Michael might even be persuaded to permit the remains to be at the service. Private would be the key, though. I'm sure he doesn't want a media circus surrounding the burial. I'm not so sure her parents share that sentiment. He's planning to inter her remains in the Schiavo family vault. It's not as if he's planning to violate Catholic teaching about handling of bodies after death. For all I know, he may even have planned a PRIVATE mass prior to interment.

**thinkerlady**[$] · #**299** 03-31-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

jgibson2 said

He's planning to inter her remains in the Schiavo family vault. It's not as if he's planning to violate Catholic teaching about handling of bodies after death. For all I know, he may even have planned a PRIVATE mass prior to interment.

Yes from what I have heard, he is planning to cremate her, and then inter the ashes. Some reporters say this is in violation of her Catholic faith, but it is not. Cremation is accepted, as long as the remains are interred.
She is from Huntington Valley, PA, which is not far from where I live. Our paper this morning said that he wanted her to be buried close to where they met, grew up, and were married. He loved her.

**drmomentum**[$] · #**300** 03-31-2005, 05:56 PM

It becomes more and more difficult to feel sympathy for these Schindlers, who really do deserve sympathy.

But what happens when you commoditize sympathy? I guess it depends on how you do it.

They were definitely not served well by their supporters, who piggy-backed off the sympathy, capitalized on it, and then spent that capital. That much is certain.

-JP