Alaskan Oil Drilling

[phoenixx]

More news to come out of the legislative branch yesterday.

Found on Excite:

This week, Sen. Pete Domenici (R-NM) defended Republican plans to allow oil drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge - a haven for caribou, polar bears and other wildlife - is believed to be rich with oil. A key part of President Bush's energy policy is to open the refuge's coastal areas to oil drilling. Environmentalists and some Alaska Natives oppose such plans, saying the area is critical to preserve wildlife habitats.

The related story

I am incredibly against this as any kind of solution. Nature and all her glory are irreplaceable, not to mention the negative impact this would have on the population in Alaska (displacing several groups of people) and the displacement of wildlife.

A better solution in my opinion would be to give financial rewards for creating alternative power sources for housing, cars, etc. I'd think finding ways to burn garbage for fuel, for example, would solve two issues of the future - dwindling landfill space and dwindling oil supply.

[theworm[$]]

I'm with you, Leslie. I've seen many stories arguing the effects on wildlife both ways. Some stories say it will be horrible - some say it will be ok. I don't really know, but I'm not ready to risk it. That aside, the wildlife refuge is beautiful. Are we going to destroy every bit of nature that we have left? Where I live, if there is a tree now, look for a mini-mall next year.
I want to preserve The refuge in its natural glory.
Yes - perhaps there is fuel there, but all that will do is destroy a priceless natural treasure for a temporary solution to the oil problem. We need more hybrid cars, we need more alternate sources of energy.

[phoenixx]

Interestingly, I don't think of hybrid cars as a good solution - they still require petroleum. The fact that they use it in smaller amounts doesn't free us of our dependency on petroleum. Electricity itself is not a viable solution, as it also uses petroleum to gain it's power.

I think using the immense amount of trash we generate would be ideal.

Using used cooking oil for furnaces would be ideal.

I'd say find a way to use sewage, but that may have ramifications in "air quality"

[theworm[$]]

I agree, Leslie, that hybrids are not the answer, but I think that they offer a way to drastically cut our reliance on oil immediately while we search for other options. If there was a way to recycle our garbage/waste into energy - that would be amazing!

[erik_kosberg]

My biggest problem with drilling in ANWR (and I’ve got quite a few problems with it) is that it is, at best, a stopgap measure. The U.S. consumes about 8 billion barrels of petroleum a year. ANWR’s reserves have been estimated at anywhere from 3 to 11 billion barrels. So even with the most optimistic estimates, ANWR’s got a 15-month supply of petroleum. Do we really want to drill in a wildlife refuge to get what’s no more than a bandaid?

As a nation, we are hydrocarbon junkies. A junkie is always on the lookout for a way to get his next fix. If that means mugging a little old lady, so be it. Instead of drilling in a wildlife refuge for our heroin, maybe we need to think about checking ourselves into a methadone clinic.

Okay, so I’ve used up today’s supply of bad metaphors.

[Stokes Pennwalt]

erik_kosberg said

My biggest problem with drilling in ANWR (and I’ve got quite a few problems with it) is that it is, at best, a stopgap measure. The U.S. consumes about 8 billion barrels of petroleum a year. ANWR’s reserves have been estimated at anywhere from 3 to 11 billion barrels. So even with the most optimistic estimates, ANWR’s got a 15-month supply of petroleum. Do we really want to drill in a wildlife refuge to get what’s no more than a bandaid?

That's about where I am too. The problem isn't where to get it, it's how to reduce consumption of it. And by this I don't mean by being thriftier or less exuberant, but by exploiting other methods of production that have been on the back burner because petro is cheap as hell. The fact is we don't have to sacrifice our quality of life a bit, because there's enough energy potential left to be had for everyone.

phoenixx said

Interestingly, I don't think of hybrid cars as a good solution - they still require petroleum. The fact that they use it in smaller amounts doesn't free us of our dependency on petroleum. Electricity itself is not a viable solution, as it also uses petroleum to gain it's power.

Actually more than half of our electrical power comes from coal. We've got 25% of the world's coal reserves right here at home, so it's cheap and unaffected by trouble in other areas of the world. Also, the amount of energy contained in our national coal resources is greater than the amount of energy contained by the world's known oil reserves. Plus, it's been around since forever, so we've gotten handy at it. We only get something like 10% of our electrical power from oil. Hydro and natural gas kick in a bit more. Can't remember the exact percentages off the top of my head though.

And of course there is fission, which gives us around 20% at the moment though this will change soon thanks to Nuclear Power 2010 lifting the de facto freeze the NRC has had on new reactor licenses since 1979 or so. Right now fission is the best stop gap measure we have until fusion comes around, which WILL be a panacea. Next step is to get people to stop squabbling and pick a site for ITER to be built. Then it's on fo' sheezy.

[realtraveller]

There is an oil well on the campus of the Beverly Hills High School and another one in a Beverly Hills shopping area. Very few people even know they are there.

The socialites of 90210 aren't getting oil slicks on their Pradas.

The point is that oil wells aren't the unsightly derricks of yesteryear anymore, spraying oil around like a scene from "Giant".

[rmthunter]

All I can do is once again point out what is going on in Illinois and the City of Chicago. The overwhelming majority of our electricity in Chicago comes from nuclear reactors -- something like 80%. The administration is behind a big push on energy conservation, offering tax credits for retrofitting old houses (i.e., heavier insulation, installing solar panels, etc.) and doing the same to public buildings. (City Hall now has a roof garden which among other things has reduced energy costs by a fairly impressive amount, although I forget the exact figure -- I think it's something like $4,000 a month.)

Illinois is putting what money it has (and like the other states in this glorious union, money is very tight) into research on clean burning of coal (of which we have lots) and wind farms. We are, of course, among the major proponents of gasohol, since aside from wind, we have lots of corn.

One of the major reasons that the administration is only paying lip service to alternative fuel sources is that the oil companies, unlike the tobacco companies, have not diversified. They don't have to, at least not until there's an administration that is serious about energy policy. And Gail Norton is right -- they don't care where it comes from, as long as they get their tax breaks and their cheap leases.

(Oh, and add to the questionable long-term value of the ANWR reserves the fact that it will take about 10 years to develop them.)

I do have to join those who believe that there should be a few square inches of this country that are exempt from some corporation's bottom line.

[rmthunter]

Actually, thinking about getting the administration behind alternative energy sources, there flashed into my mind a bill sponsored by Sen. Dominici to open Yellowstone National Park to geothermal energy exploitation. I can't imagine why I would think that.

[Stokes Pennwalt]

I checked the EIA's page and according to them this is what comprises our domestic electric utility:

Source               % of total generation
Coal                             51 
Nuclear                          20 
Natural Gas                      17 
Hydro                            7 
Oil                              3 
Other*                           3
*solar/wind/hemp and bongwater

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfac...ckelectric.htm

So like I was saying, oil isn't used much at all compared to just about everything else.

[rmthunter]

Let's face it, the real culprit is our love affair with the internal combustion engine. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that hybrid vehicles are, if not a solution, the best way to cut our reliance on oil in half in the short term. If we had a Congress that would give tax rebates to the purchasers of hybrids, while slapping an extra tax on SUVs, which are, last I heard, classed as "light trucks" and so exempt from the mileage requirements that apply to passenger vehicles, we might start to see a change in direction.

[anderclayton]

Until they can get semis that use hybrid motors that isn't really that much of a solution though. A big problem is that our reliance on oil is really based more on our geography (large, frequently landlocked nation) than a lot of other factors. I mean sure lack of oil in noncommercial vehicles might cut down use for a while but those semi trucks are still going to be sucking up the oil.

Ander

[phoenixx]

anderclayton said

Until they can get semis that use hybrid motors that isn't really that much of a solution though. A big problem is that our reliance on oil is really based more on our geography (large, frequently landlocked nation) than a lot of other factors. I mean sure lack of oil in noncommercial vehicles might cut down use for a while but those semi trucks are still going to be sucking up the oil.

Ander

As I mentioned above, I don't think hybrids are the oslution. Your point is exactly what I had in mind by suggesting using the enormous amount of garbage we generate as a culture to power our lives, especially planes, trains and trucks.

[erik_kosberg]

Biodiesel could at least in theory be a part of the solution to the semi problem that Ander poses. But it’s not a perfect fix in that the source material is grown using petroleum-based fertilizer.

Other* 3
*solar/wind/hemp and bongwater

Or maybe we just need a lot more bongwater.

[Stokes Pennwalt]

phoenixx said

As I mentioned above, I don't think hybrids are the oslution. Your point is exactly what I had in mind by suggesting using the enormous amount of garbage we generate as a culture to power our lives, especially planes, trains and trucks.

Thermal depolymerization rocks the microphone.

[anderclayton]

Neat

[rmthunter]

I think it's GM that is already touting its hybrid buses (I hear ads periodically on WFMT), so hybrid semies are feasible. Oil produced by thermal depolymerization certainly looks hopeful (it also looks like it's at the point where costs are the significant factor, and I have a feeling that hurdle would be easy to surmount if production became a priority).

We have also been shortchanging rail transit over recent decades in the US. We have the infrastructure, which does need upgrading but it's there.

Most of our oil problems seem to stem not from lack of alternatives, but from lack of interest on the part of those who are in a position to do something about it.

[erik_kosberg]

The oil companies win a big round as the Senate votes 51-49 to allow drilling:
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D88S8AK00.html

[wivabef]

I sure wish the search for alternative energy sources was as fervently argued as this......

How sad.

For the record, I don't feel what is PROPOSED and now approved by the senate is damaging...but I do feel it is opening a door that should remained closed.

[Helen_B[$]]

A note on gasoline--here in Canada I believe that the gasoline can contain up to 10% alchohol, certainly a cheap and renewable resource. When combined with use of hybrid engines, that's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Any comment on the diesel owners in the UK that discovered they could blend in cooking oil to lower their costs, making their vehicles give off the smell of a chip fryer? Unfortunately, they still have to pay fuel tax to the government on the veggie oil, if they use if for their cars.

[rmthunter]

Prediction: That oil will never make it to the Lower 48 -- it will be piped to Alaskan ports and shipped to Japan.

[erik_kosberg]

Probably correct, but I’d modify that prediction by including China.