Another book bites the dust

[amykhar]

A local school district just removed "The Buffalo Tree" by Adam Rapp from their 11th grade curriculum. It was removed for objectionable language and sexual content.

My questions for you:
1. Are 11th graders old enough to deal with profanity and sex in a required reading assignment?
2. Would you object to your child reading words such as "dick", "sex pole", and "fuck" out loud in a high school classroom?

[Helen_B[$]]

l. Yes, 11th graders are old enough to deal with profanity and sex in a required reading assignment. However, that being said, just being old enough doesn't automatically make such reading appropriate.
2. Yes, I would object to my child reading those words out loud in a high school classroom. What one reads silently to oneself, or chooses to use in conversation with friends or aquaintences may differ markedly from what one would feel comfortable reading aloud in a classroom situation.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

amykhar said

A local school district just removed "The Buffalo Tree" by Adam Rapp from their 11th grade curriculum. It was removed for objectionable language and sexual content.

My questions for you:
1. Are 11th graders old enough to deal with profanity and sex in a required reading assignment?
2. Would you object to your child reading words such as "dick", "sex pole", and "fuck" out loud in a high school classroom?

1. Some yes, some no.
2. Most definitely. In fact, I really don't like seeing them here "undisguised," they hit like a brutal punch to the face.

[jenninca]

1. I wouldn't have a problem with it as optional reading, like a book report sort of thing. I do have trouble with it being mandatory.

2. Yes. There's words I won't say aloud, and I'll be darned if I'd say them just because the teacher told me to read that page out loud.

Kids should know ahead of time what they're getting into. In 11th grade, we did a year-long author study and I picked William Styron. I got quite an education reading "Sophie's Choice." I had no idea what I was getting myself into and found myself quite embarrassed when it came time to do the project. I did everything I could to avoid mentioning the sexual parts, because there was NO WAY I was going to stand up in a classroom full of very immature 11th grade boys and talk about sex.

Cindy

[pippadaisy[$]]

1. Considering that over half of them are already having sex and have more colorful vocabularies than I do? I don't see why not, but then again, there are going to be some kids who may have religious objections.

2. Me? Not one bit. Let them read them aloud in front of a teacher and peers from a book, and I bet they'd think twice about using them in everyday language.

[wivabef]

Removing from the curriculum? I don't have a problem. Removing from the library? That's a problem.

I don't see why, when we have sooooo many choices out there that appeal to teenagers, we have to choose anything that would make anyone uncomfortable to read aloud.

Elyzabeth
who has recently become reacquainted with the term "peckahead" and prefers it, now, over a-hole.

[theworm[$]]

1) What Elyzabeth said.

2) I have a potty mouth, and Yes, I object to anyone - especially kids - being forced to mouth those words. If they used those words in the classroom outside the context of assigned reading, they would be repremanded. It's not appropriate in high school.

[poseidon]

I'm not a parent, but if I were, I'd have little problems with my kids reading profanity (I mean, that's rarely censored on primetime TV these days).

I'd be pissed off as hell if my kid said "fuck" (I have a hard time even typing that) in the classroom. If his/her teachers didn't scold him/her, I certainly would.

[mtomm[$]]

1) Required, no
2) Ack! I don't like to hear those words out loud and I would have a problem with my kids reading them out loud.

[drmomentum[$]]

I have no problem with it beign removed from the curriculum, it's obvious that many people are going to find it objecitonable, and unless there's some compelling educational reason it's better to take a slightly less rocky road there. (It's important that there is no compelling educaitonal reason. If people objected to a certain subject matter, it's a different story.)

As far as hearing or reading those words, I have no problem with it. People should have power over words, not the other way around. But leave it in the library. It's the parents' responsibility to decide whether the kids can read a book or not, not the school's responsibility to pare it down to the least common denominator.

-JP

[MrsNormanMaine[$]]

What else does the book contain thematically? Is the profanity and sex gratuitous or is it there to explore character, situation and theme?

In most world cultures, sixteen is adult enough to marry and be independent.

Would you ban a book from high school reading that contains a discussion of rape and uses the 'n' word? If you would, you just banned 'To Kill A Mockingbird'.

MNM !queen

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

MrsNormanMaine said

What else does the book contain thematically? Is the profanity and sex gratuitous or is it there to explore character, situation and theme?

In most world cultures, sixteen is adult enough to marry and be independent.

Would you ban a book from high school reading that contains a discussion of rape and uses the 'n' word? If you would, you just banned 'To Kill A Mockingbird'.

MNM !queen

And part of the reason "To Kill A Mockingbird" is such a wonderful book is that it deals with discussing the rape well without resorting to "She said he f*cked her."

[wivabef]

MrsNormanMaine said

What else does the book contain thematically? Is the profanity and sex gratuitous or is it there to explore character, situation and theme?

In most world cultures, sixteen is adult enough to marry and be independent.

Would you ban a book from high school reading that contains a discussion of rape and uses the 'n' word? If you would, you just banned 'To Kill A Mockingbird'.

MNM !queen

I agree, but still, it is not being banned from the school. It is being removed as part of the 11th grade curriculm. In fact, if the school had simply replaced the book with another book and said nothing, I am sure it would not have been missed. Somebody turned this into an issue.

[murasaki]

As a teacher, I don't like anyone dictating to me what I cannot teach (I frequently have to put up with what I must teach, but that doesn't bother me as much). Books come and go in a curriculum based on the teacher's skills, interests, specialty, etc. As long as the book remains in the library, that's fine, and the book is replaced in the curriculum with another book of quality that sparks good discussion.

I would not object to reading of various offensive words in class because it's quoting. We frequently read aloud passages during our class discussions. If someone does not want to say a word, they are not forced to do so. No one has objected, thus far, to hearing/reading swear words in the pieces we study. Granted, I teach 18+ year olds, but some of them are deeply religious and still have not objected.

[Redlass]

I have faith in most teachers to be able to determine what the students in their classes can and can't handle. I'm also of the opinion that kids are often able to handle far more than we give them credit for--it is we adults who want them to hang on to their innocence, not vice versa.

However, I would object to a child being asked to read such words aloud. If the words get brought up in a discussion about the book (for example, I wouldn't object to a high school student discussing whether the use of the word 'fuck' had the impact the author intended), I wouldn't have an issue. Making it mandatory to read the words aloud as they appear in the story makes me squirm a little. Again, I'd like the teacher to make that decision, not the school board, but I would hope the teacher would decide against it.

Even as an adult, there are some plays that I enjoy reading that I won't go see. It is the difference between seeing a word on paper and having someone shout it at me. Now yes, that is the purpose of theater--to engage the audience and make sure there is some sort of connection, but I also recognize that a night of something like "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" can leave me entirely drained and feeling like I've been mugged.

And on another, perhaps snobby note, why are they reading the book out loud in high school? Aside from particular passages that they may want to discuss, shouldn't the kids be reading by themselves by high school?

[pippadaisy[$]]

Bridgette, should and can are two entirely different things. I had ninth graders when I student taught and I was afraid for them having to give any sort of oral presentation in college.

[amykhar]

I really want to read this book now so I can make my own judgments about its content. The school board and parents refused to name the teacher; so I couldn't get her side of things.

Last night's meeting about the book was a hoot. I wish y'all could have been there.

On to the main questions, I have no problems with my older kids reading mature content. But, I think reading it out loud in class was a bit much.

The other issue in this case is that school policy dictates that if a parent or student find a novel offensive, they be given an alternat assignment. The student claims that the teacher refused to do so. At this point, we only have the student's word though on that matter.

[mtomm[$]]

Redlass said

Even as an adult, there are some plays that I enjoy reading that I won't go see. It is the difference between seeing a word on paper and having someone shout it at me. Now yes, that is the purpose of theater--to engage the audience and make sure there is some sort of connection, but I also recognize that a night of something like "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" can leave me entirely drained and feeling like I've been mugged.

Which is I like to be very careful about what audiobooks I listen to.

[anderclayton]

Geeze, personally I didn't swear much at all until I got out of high school and into the Navy (after which time it became second nature). It sounds like the teacher in question might have been doing this to make a point rather than necessarily for educational purposes.

I would not object to reading of various offensive words in class because it's quoting.

Honestly I can see this being a bit of a problem. "No teacher, I wasn't calling him a sex pole. I was just quoting the book." Even in eleventh grade that sort of thing can get out of hand.

Requiring someone to read this sort of thing out loud is pretty much just asking for trouble. I could see it in college but high school is pushing things possibly.

Ander

[amykhar]

I just learned the school pulled it from the library as well. Now I'm

I can see not having it in the classroom, but I'm against outright banning. V.C. Andrews is in my kids' high school library. That certainly has bad language and sex and isn't literature. Harumph.

[realtraveller]

Out of the hundreds of thousands of wonderful books that could be read and discussed in the 11th grade, something else couldn't be found?

Yes, I'd object to my kids reading 'f' out loud or hearing 'sexpole' etc. The language heard around a middle school these days would make a longshoreman blush. Reading such stuff out loud only gives such language the teacher's seal of approval.

Moreover, some uses of the 'f' word and other vulgarisms are merely examples of lazy writing.

My kids are reading "To Kill A Mockingbird" in 7th grade. It's a wonderful classic. It teaches the value of telling the truth, honoring your parents, valuing people for their character and not their skin color and other 'family values' messages. The 'n' word is not used gratuitously and the rape is not explicitly portrayed.

[thinkerlady[$]]

As a teacher and parent of older teens, I have no problem with profanity to this degree in a book they might have read. Even if it is a required reading. Also, if passages were read aloud, to discuss, a "teachable moment" if I may be trite, then sure, go for it. I have a bigger problem with "round robin" reading of a book in 11th grade. That is just wrong. But to isolate passages, and generate a discussion? Sure.

I think it is wrong to censor literature, whether it is good or bad literature, if it serves a purpose in teaching. I have even bigger issues removing books from a library.

Besides, every good teacher knows that in order to get older teens to read, a few colorful words must be present!!! Actually, we find in middle school that philosophy works perfectly. I would have issues with big time profanity in Middle school, as required reading, but not high school.