Question about the Roman Catholic church

**theworm**[$] · #1 04-21-2005, 02:43 PM

I'm posting out of curiosity - not as an issue for debate - but the topic seems most appropriate for the Symposium. I apologize in advabce if I in any way offend anyone here - if I do, it is out of ignorance - not malice.

In the thread about choosing a Pope, the discussion has branched out to a broader topic of Priests, Married Priests, Homosexuality, etc.

Two people shared stories about gay priests and how one discussed his homosexuality openly. Here's my question. I thought that the church denounced homosexuality, yet there are homosexual priests. So - is it okay to be gay - its just not ok for gay individuals to have same sex intercourse? If that is the case, then it almost seems like the church recognizes that certain people just ARE gay - that its not a choice. And if the church does recognize that people are gay be design, then how can it not approve of homosexuality?

Again - I mean no offense. Judiasm also forbids homosexuality. While the Orthodox Rabbis view it as an obomination, the concervative and reform movements are more open to homosexuality. I'm not judging or debating - I'm just trying to understand how an openly gay man can become a priest.

dramastef · #2 04-21-2005, 03:19 PM

I was raised Catholic, attended 13 years of Catholic school and I still don't know all the ins and outs. Different teachers, differnent family members, different Catholics will tell you different things. I am pretty sure, however, that no one is technically ousted for being a homosexual, as long as you are a non-practicing homosexual.

Though I've never heard of an openly gay priest, I have a very close friend who is openly gay and still sings in the choir of his Catholic church. We've had so very many debates. I don't understand how he can attend a church where a prominent belief is that he will go to Hell when he dies. I actually emailed him part of your post, and he said that most Catholics he knows believe that gay people are gay, but they can pray to be "healed". He views this as laughable, but remains Catholic out of what he calls habit. I call it self-flagellation.

I don't know if your questions can be answered, because I think different Catholics believe different things, and most believe their view is the "official" view. Maybe there's a posting somewhere of "official" stances. I don't know (so yeah, if I didn't know, why'd I respond? I'm feeling chatty!).

~Stef

frazzledspice · #3 04-21-2005, 03:35 PM

Priests take vows of celibacy, whether their sexual orientation is homosexual or heterosexual.

I googled up some admission requirements for seminaries, and they included transcripts, an interview, documentation (I assume this means references) and psychological testing. It's my understanding that the psychological testing is quite comprehensive now.

I don't think that any seminaries exclude candidates solely because of sexual orientation if the psychological testing indicates the individual is mature, self-disciplined, and aware of the demands of his chosen vocation, but I'm not completely sure about that.

The priesthood places the same demands--chastity--on all its members.

**theworm**[$] · #4 04-21-2005, 03:37 PM

So it's ok to be gay - it's just not ok for gay people to engage in sexual behavior with same sex partners?

frazzledspice · #5 04-21-2005, 03:41 PM

Oh.....

The rule is the same for both homosexuals and heterosexuals again. Sex is to take place within sacramental marriage.

However, marriage is defined as the union of a man and a woman.

Therefore, no gay marriage.

No pre or extra marital sex for people of whatever sexual orientation.

Having a homosexual orientation is not sinful, as long as you follow the same rules that other unmarried people are expected to follow.

**jgibson2**[$] · #6 04-21-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

theworm said

So it's ok to be gay - it's just not ok for gay people to engage in sexual behavior with same sex partners?

Wormie,
It's more accurate to say that it is not sinful to have a homosexual orientation. The current Pope has said that it is essentially 'disordered' -- IOW, not really OK, in the sense that it's considered 'normal', but not a sin as long as you don't act on it. IOW, homosexuals should all be celebate.

As for admission to seminaries, some hold that since homosexuality is 'disordered' that homosexuals should not be admitted. Others follow what Frazzledspice has said and admit homosexuals they believe have a reasonable chance of keeping their vows of chastity. They aren't likely to post the exact requirements on their web sites. Word gets out, though.

**theworm**[$] · #7 04-21-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

jgibson2 said

Wormie,
It's more accurate to say that it is not sinful to have a homosexual orientation. The current Pope has said that it is essentially 'disordered' -- IOW, not really OK, in the sense that it's considered 'normal', but not a sin as long as you don't act on it. IOW, homosexuals should all be celebate.

As for admission to seminaries, some hold that since homosexuality is 'disordered' that homosexuals should not be admitted. Others follow what Frazzledspice has said and admit homosexuals they believe have a reasonable chance of keeping their vows of chastity. They aren't likely to post the exact requirements on their web sites. Word gets out, though.

Thanks, Judy! That answered the question. This is all complicated stuff.

**jgibson2**[$] · #8 04-21-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

dramastef said

Though I've never heard of an openly gay priest, I have a very close friend who is openly gay and still sings in the choir of his Catholic church. We've had so very many debates. I don't understand how he can attend a church where a prominent belief is that he will go to Hell when he dies. I actually emailed him part of your post, and he said that most Catholics he knows believe that gay people are gay, but they can pray to be "healed". He views this as laughable, but remains Catholic out of what he calls habit. I call it self-flagellation.
~Stef

Stef,
I don't think there is a succinct listing of all Catholic teachings about homosexuality, but you might want to consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I don't have time today to look up the applicable spots, but yes, as Frazzledspice has stated, any sex outside of a valid heterosexual marriage is considered sinful. Are people going to hell for breaking that particular prohibition? If you read enough, you'll find theologians who say absolutely, without question -- and those who talk about compulsions and people having inclinations which decrease their culpability for their sinful behaviors.

One thing I was taught - repeatedly- is that while we can be pretty sure that there are people in heaven, we can't be equally certain that any particular person is in hell.

Redlass · #9 04-21-2005, 05:34 PM

To put something in perspective, though. The Catholic Church officially says that anyone who is not in a state of grace when they die is going to hell. They don't really single out any one mortal sin over another. It's more a matter of what gets defined as a mortal sin.

But as Judy says, the Catechism does have a pretty clear explanation of it that basically says that being homosexual is not a sin, but having sex outside of marriage is.