Multiculturalism a vehicle for Islamic extremism?

[wivabef]

I thought this Pamela Bone opinion piece pointed out the 800 pound gorilla sitting in the middle of the global kitchen.

In some western countries effort to show tolerance by insisting on separate cultures, did they turn a blind eye to the hatred growing from within?

I have long valued multiculturalism. But there is something wrong when second and third-generation Muslims can believe the society in which they grew up - indeed, into which they were born - is evil to the core and needs to be destroyed. There is something wrong with multiculturalism when Muslims can attend mosques in Europe that are more radical than some in the Middle East.

[amykhar]

I have never been a fan of multiculturisim. When you move to a country, you need to adapt to the country, not try to make the country adapt to you.

[wivabef]

Amy, I'm glad you jumped in first, because I consider you a reasonable, level-headed person.

I am a fan of teaching all children about the world's cultures. So, you would think that I am a fan of multiculturalism. And indeed, my sister is a professor who's field of expertise is multiculturalism. She specializes in ethnographies and qualitative research. Her focus is how to reach children through interpretive mechanisms typical to their culture. It is bridge crossing...and the bridge works both ways.

I am not a fan of reconstructing a culture to compartmentalize its varying cultures. This is what multiculturalism is in the political world. Rather than building bridges, it burns bridges. It excludes other cultures from participating with each other.

[rmthunter]

I hesitate to subscribe to such broad conclusions. Like anything else, multiculturalism has a lot of heads. At its best, it promotes understanding and tolerance by simply increasing our resources -- there is always more than one approach to anything, and I think that awareness and acceptance of the differences within a main culture only makes the main culture richer.

On the other hand, it can become a political tool that brings out the worst in us and in the idea of multiculturalism itself. This shows up everywhere from politicians working on identifying and exploiting various groups to members of the various groups using their minority status as a political tool. I'm sure we can all think of examples of both.

I think the worst thing that can happen is for government to get involved, because government, especially in democracies of various sorts, simply doesn't seem to have much sense of proportion. It might work if we presume honesty on both sides of the transaction, but we all know better at this point.

It has to work both ways, also -- I agree on that score completely. That's why I have no particular objection, for example, to having some school classes in Spanish, but we tend to use that sort of thing as a crutch rather than a resource -- the goal should be that everyone winds up speaking English, and if some students are given a good environment in which to learn Spanish in addition to English, so much the better. The idea that you can transplant your native culture to, for example, the US and never participate in the mainstream is simply wrong, as well as being self-defeating.

[realtraveller]

Multiculturalism teaches that in a multicultural country there should be no dominant culture, no dominant tradition, no single set of traditions and practices accepted by everyone.

Multiculturalism leads to a lack of national cohesion and a balkanization into self-segregating ethnic groups rather than having everyone embrace one tradition.

One small example: My daughter came home from school and said that there were banners celebrating Cinco de Mayo. A few days later she wondered why there was nothing at all at school about Memorial Day.

Cinco de Mayo--a celebration of a foreign government's victory over another foreign government having nothing at all to do with the United States and celebrated only by those of Mexican origin. (Or by those who just like an excuse to drink margaritas.) Banners.


Memorial Day--marking the sacrifice of Americans to keep the freedoms of Americans in America, a day that should be remembered by all Americans. Nothing.

Now what does that sort of thing tell children?

[drmomentum[$]]

Bacharach and David used to write his favorite songs
Never, never, never would he worry, he'd just run and fetch the ball
But the hiphop and the white funk just blew away my puppy's mind

Idon'tunderstandwhatyoudidtomydog.
Idon'tunderstandwhatyoudidtomydog.
Idon'tunderstandwhatyoudidtomydog.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

drmomentum said

Bacharach and David used to write his favorite songs
Never, never, never would he worry, he'd just run and fetch the ball
But the hiphop and the white funk just blew away my puppy's mind

Idon'tunderstandwhatyoudidtomydog.
Idon'tunderstandwhatyoudidtomydog.
Idon'tunderstandwhatyoudidtomydog.

Wow, how often do you get to use They Might Be Giants to make a debate point?

I'm with the degrees/spectrum version of multiculturalism. I used to work in a very large place that had a very diverse staff. We would have parties where everyone brought food from their ethnic background, music, dress, etc. It was fun. But 9-5 most of the year, people dressed and behaved like the majority culture to get the work done. It *is* possible to strike a balance, where people don't have to give up their entire heritage and set of traditions and yet are assimilated into the majority culture - and where the majority culture can allow this, yet retain its own identity.

[rmthunter]

realtraveller said

Now what does that sort of thing tell children?

That maybe some parents should be in talking to the principal about what multiculturalism is really about and that this is, after all is said and done, still America.

[wivabef]

rmthunter said

That maybe some parents should be in talking to the principal about what multiculturalism is really about and that this is, after all is said and done, still America.

You can try, but its often fruitless.

My plea to present Martin Luther King Jr Day as a day of unity rather than a day where the 98% white population of my daughter's elementary school is told (over and over again) how the "white people" and "whites" did horrible things to african americans fell on deaf ears.

My then second grade daughter developed a sense of guilt, and a sense of cultural delineation, she never had experienced before thanks to this exercise in original sin.

After I was featured in Gregory Kane's column and spoke with the principal before hand to explain my frustration, I was curious what would happen the next year.

Again, as I walked down the halls, reading essays, I read over and over again how "white people" and "the whites" did horrible things. Once in a while, I would smile as I read, "some whites were good. They marched with Dr. King".

As my daughter has yet to learn about the Civil War (she's entering 5th grade, so I was kind of surprised by this), there is no real context for them to understand why these things happened.

[jgibson2[$]]

Elyzabeth,
I opted my kids out of public school when my oldest was taught, in pre-school, that the first Thanksgiving was when the Pilgrims gave thanks to the Indians.

I figured it was completely hopeless and sent them to private school before we opted out entirely.

Civil War? We started learning about that in pre-K at my homeschool. Ask the librarian at the Riviera Beach library to recommend some books. She's got some really good ones. Just a heads up, though, when you read Pink and Say get out the kleenex before you get to the last page.

[rmthunter]

Chicago has local advisory boards that have pretty heavy input into the schools. It seems to work out OK, since areas with heavy minority populations get to see themselve represented, while the "white ehtnic" neighborhoods don't get subjected to blanket multiculturalism.

It's really odd -- hearing from people in other parts of the country, I'm starting to realize just how together Chicago is on a lot of things.

[wivabef]

rmthunter said

It's really odd -- hearing from people in other parts of the country, I'm starting to realize just how together Chicago is on a lot of things.

Education-wise, I understand Chicago as having an excellent program.

Don't they also have a notable charter school system?

[rmthunter]

Yeah, although I can't confess to be really up on it.

Considering the state Chicago's schools were in a decade ago, it's an amazing turn-around. They're still not no. 1, but apparently they're nowhere near as bad as they were.

OK -- I'm not going to do a Chicago-boosting post. I won't. Really.

[wivabef]

rmthunter said

OK -- I'm not going to do a Chicago-boosting post. I won't. Really.

Actually, it's nice to see positive news in the Symposium. Boost away!

[rmthunter]

Hah! OK --

Note: This post is voluntary, being completely OT

Short form:

The city (meaning the Mayor, known at large as "Maredaley," which is an actual word in Chicago) is committed to becoming the "Green City." There is huge support for environmental businesses, tax breaks for retrofitting private houses to be more energy efficient, a huge beautification program, including refurbishing and upgrading the parks (as of a couple of years ago, 250,000 trees planted) -- there's even a roof garden on City Hall that saves, I think, about $4,000 a month on energy costs. (Our recycling program is kind of lame, but we're working on it.)

Speaking of parks, we have a great park system, including parks pretty much all along the lakeshore, with public beaches, boat harbors, tennis courts, baseball diamonds, field houses -- which include artist-in-residence programs for dance companies -- public swimming pools, even a golf course, the Theater on the Lake, and several wildlife refuges.

We continue to produce distinguished architecture, and still have a lively arts scene, including not only visual arts but music (two symphony orchestras, two opera companies, a host of blues and jazz clubs, and a major summer music festival at Ravinia), theater, and dance, home to several important museums (The Art Institute is reputed to be the most heavily visited museum in the country), several first-rate colleges and universities (including Northwestern and U of C), a number of alternative newspapers, an extensive library system, and lots of public art and a free concert program in Grant Park.

After a sharp turn-around, the city has a gay-inclusive civil rights ordinance (15 years before the state caught up), the mayor has a gay and lesbian advisory panel, and there is a gay and lesbian Hall of Fame. Contrary to what you may have heard, we are not really segregated, but Chicago is a city of neighborhoods -- people pretty much live where they want here, but it's a fundamental characteristic of human nature that you live around people like you. My own neighborhood is pretty much ethically mixed (which is a treat when you go grocery shopping -- aside from the chain supermarkets, I am in easy reach of two Spanish groceries, several Asian markets -- Little Saigon is just a few blocks away -- and an African market, as well as the little Persian grocery where I buy cigarettes and lust after the pastries -- oh, and don't forget the Swedish bakeries and delis -- my main problem sometimes is reading the labels). In my old neighborhood you can eat a different cuisine every night, mostly at little Mom-and-Pop places.

Housing is not nearly so expensive as on the coasts, and there is a broad range available -- if you want a cheap apartment, you can find one, and if you want a million dollar condo, you can find one of those, too.

And it's very easy to get around -- the elevated/subway lines have gotten really good, and even the buses can be dealt with. I don't need a car.

So. when you moving?

(PS -- this is not actually completely OT, since it's living multiculturalism.)

[wivabef]

Thank you Robert!

AHHHHH!

I can smell the fresh air now!

There is good in the world!

[rmthunter]

And then, of course, there's the weather. (It is so humid right now that my egg pan is rusting just sitting on the stove. Not to mention my carbon steel knives.)