Holiday Controversies

[rmthunter]

I'm putting this here because it's a perennial controversy, although we usually get more of it at Christmas.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1031/p...c.html?ref=aol

School principals from Newton, Mass., to Denver find themselves increasingly haunted at Halloween by this refrain: Get out, ye ghoulies!

Bowing to concerns of a wide range of groups - from Christians who consider Halloween to have pagan or satanic overtones to church-state separatists who object to the holiday's religious roots - some elementary schools are canceling their customary costume parades and Halloween celebrations.

I can see a First Amendment objection to Halloween celebrations, but it's pretty tenuous -- most people don't recognize the religious significance of the holiday (which for me is one of the two holiest days of the year). It's really become as much or more a secular holiday as Christmas.

I would certainly object to a school cancelling a Halloween party because it was catering to someone's religious views.

[jenninca]

We had absolutely no recognition at school of yesterday being Halloween other than an illicit showing of "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" during the rainy recess time. Costumes, candy, and parties are long a thing of the past.

Cindy

[rmthunter]

Actually, thinking about it some more, it's a little ironic that at least part of the objections are coming from groups who otherwise are very strong on "traditions."

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Boston Legal's tackling the issue tonight

Hubby's school had a "costume party" last year, "coincidentally" on the school day closest to Halloween. This year, nothing.

[poseidon]

rmthunter said

I can see a First Amendment objection to Halloween celebrations, but it's pretty tenuous -- most people don't recognize the religious significance of the holiday (which for me is one of the two holiest days of the year). It's really become as much or more a secular holiday as Christmas.

I would certainly object to a school cancelling a Halloween party because it was catering to someone's religious views.

OFCOL! So, if someone cancels a Halloween (which you just indicated was one of the two "holiest" days of the year to you) party, they're catering to someone's religious views? How does that differ from cancelling a Christmas party because it caters to someone else's religious views? How is either one an establishment of a religion?

Let both parties go on. They're both happy times, they both have religious roots, but both holidays are celebrated far more by non-religious activity than religious.

[Redlass]

For all that we celebrated Halloween in a big way both at home and at school, I was never once tempted to become a Satanist. Nor did it even make Wicca more appealing to me (not a slam at Wicca, mind, simply a statement that celebrating one of their holidays did not have an evangelical effect on me).

Don't we still teach social studies in school? Don't we still think experiential learning is a good thing? If so, then why do we increasingly ban celebrations from the school that allow for an experiential learning of traditions and holidays?

No, I don't think we should lead children in prayer or dwell overmuch on the religious aspects of holidays. I do think that children should be aware of basic traditions surrounding major holidays that our country celebrates. It's one reason my husband and I help out every year with the Hanukah lunch at my son's school. We also appreciate that the choir sings actual Christmas songs as well as other more generic ones. One of the classes in the school learned about the forehead mark (and here's where my education is sadly lacking, because I don't know even a tenth of what the three-, four-, and five-year olds in my son's school know) and the traditional winter celebration of that particular Eastern faith (which I can't remember exactly which one it is--perhaps this year I should arrange to attend the class).

Learning about religions is important--and learning is not the same as proseltyzing.

[realtraveller]

My kids' school didn't ban Halloween costumes from school but they placed so many restrictions on them that most kids said 'forget it'. No swords, light sabers, plastic knives, no masks, no blood make-up, no make-up resembling wounds...

I don't think a school should take time out from lessons to celebrate Halloween. Halloween is fun but there is little educational value to it.

My objection to dropping Christmas from "Winter Holiday" programs had to do with the detriment to music education. I'd rather have the school orchestra performing a Bach piece than Frosty the Snowman. Frosty isn't difficult to play and contributes almost nothing to a musical education. Bach's pieces which are classics of both music performance and appreciation are 'banned' because solely they are religiously themed.

It's like teaching art or art history without the Pieta or the David.

[Redlass]

See, I think there was a great deal of educational value in the Halloween celebrations at my son's school--but it was mostly about process. The older kids planned two haunted houses--a scary one and a funny one. All of the planning was in their hands and they also had to construct it, practice it, etc. They were also building on the past traditions of their school.

The younger kids memorized Halloween poems and learned Halloween songs in music class while the youngest of the kids danced to the Monster Mash in gym class.

However, they also didn't have all the costume restrictions. Their only restriction was that they had to bring it in a bag and couldn't put it on until the afternoon of the party.

This year, my son was rather crushed because he had to miss both his Cub Scouts and school Halloween party--he came down with strep throat for the second time this month.

[poseidon]

Redlass said

The younger kids memorized Halloween poems

You mean, there's a Halloween poem other than:

Trick or treat!
Smell my feet!
Give me something good to eat!

[cristina1]

Redlass said

See, I think there was a great deal of educational value in the Halloween celebrations at my son's school--but it was mostly about process. The older kids planned two haunted houses--a scary one and a funny one. All of the planning was in their hands and they also had to construct it, practice it, etc. They were also building on the past traditions of their school.

The younger kids memorized Halloween poems and learned Halloween songs in music class while the youngest of the kids danced to the Monster Mash in gym class.

However, they also didn't have all the costume restrictions. Their only restriction was that they had to bring it in a bag and couldn't put it on until the afternoon of the party.

This year, my son was rather crushed because he had to miss both his Cub Scouts and school Halloween party--he came down with strep throat for the second time this month.

Our school had the "no fake blood" restriction, but I can understand why after using it for the first time on my oldest this year. It's just gross, takes awhile to dry and eventually begins flaking off.

I agree that just because something is deemed a party and fun does not limit its educational value. I saw the kids yesterday use a whole lot of skills - memorization, planning, creativity, the little ones did cutting and pasting, the older children did reading and story telling. Word finds, puzzles, mazes - all Halloween themed - gave the kids a lot of what they normally would be doing but in a fun way that gives a break from the traditional.

[Redlass]

Surprisingly, Jeff, they had about 20 they could pick from--including the Three Witches passage from Macbeth. I certainly didn't know any of them!

What kind of fake blood did you use, Tina? I know that on stage, they typically use a mix made with soap so that it washes out easily. I could find out the "recipe" if you want to make your own next year and have it be a little less of a hassle.

[hymie[$]]

Oddly enough, my synagogue sponsored a Halloween event! That raised one or two eyebrows, including TheEye's. We do Halloween personally, but it's a little strange having it done by a religious institution.

[thinkerlady[$]]

We had Halloween, but it was last Friday at school. The kids had off yesterday for Teacher inservice.
We allowed costumes--no masks or "carry-on" objects, and we asked for costumes to be tasteful.
Teachers got dressed up too, if they wanted. I was the "Absent minded Professor", but the kids didn't know who that was. So they called me a mad scientist!
We had parties too. Appropriate parties for all grade levels. In my class we had lots of junk food provided by parents, and the kids played board games, listened to music or did puzzles. I wasn't sure how they would handle it, but they did a great job.
I have enough junk food left over for a "left overs" party this week. Too bad I am in inservice all week and there is a sub in my room.

[emeleel]

Around here, there are a lot of churches that sponsor various Halloween events. Some of them are just "fall festivals", some actually use the H-word. But generally if they allow costumes, they make it very clear that there are to be no gory or scary costumes.

We don't do Halloween ourselves, so it's all moot for us.

[phoenixx]

I am one of those who believe they should either remove ALL religios connotation from schools (even going as far as to restructure the school breaks so they no longer coincide with Christmas and Easter, since no other religion's holy days get that recognition) or allow MORE and MORE VARIED religious connotation in schools. Include Halloween, Ramadan, Yom Kippur, Hannukah, etc. in school teachings and celebrations or include none of it. I'm for including it all though - school needs to have a few fun things to look forward to, and by everything bland and politically correct we are removing that, which is sad.

[drmomentum[$]]

I don't think the girls' school recognizes Hallowe'en in any significant way. Which is fine with me. We celebrate it, they celebrate it in the GS troop, and that's good enough.

At least one of the girls had a student in her class who was forbidden to celebrate it. Or just didn't celebrate it. I believe he is a Christian of some sort.

I think it would be pretty rough on him if they were celebrating in class.

It seems like the easiest way to handle these things is just to not celebrate these things in class. Let them be celebrated in the home.

There are some great events through out the year that involve dress-up, play-acting and such which are learning-driven. (And over-hyphenated)

Of course, the pilgrims who founded the Bay State didn't even believe in celebrating Christmas. I think they'd freak out over Halloween.

-JP

[rmthunter]

poseidon said

OFCOL! So, if someone cancels a Halloween (which you just indicated was one of the two "holiest" days of the year to you) party, they're catering to someone's religious views?

Not necessarily. Perhaps I wasn't clear -- I would object if a Halloween party were cancelled because someone objected to it on the basis of their personal religious beliefs. Let's face it, most people don't celebrate Halloween as a religious holiday anyway, which I have no problem with. I have no objection to making it fun, but it's also a very solemn observance. I'm not one of those who gets all bent out of shape by the holiday being "cheapened." I have my own observances, and nothing anyone else does is going to have any impact on that.

I find myself back in the area of "If you don't believe in it, don't do it, but don't try telling everyone else that they're not allowed to do it either." Demanding that a school cease to hold Haloween parties because you think it's pagan is on the order of demanding that Harry Potter be removed from the library.

There are other reasons to cancel a Halloween party that are probably valid -- such as the restrictions on costumes, which are probably an effort to avoid lawsuits, but just make it more trouble for a lot of people than it's worth.

[eris esoteric]

You know, I find this thread particularly interesting, especially since catching the following headline the other day when stacking the newspapers in the backoffice for the gift shop to sell:

Halloween Kidnapped by Grown-ups

So, on the one hand, we have people urging institutions that care for children to not recognise Halloween because people of a certain religious bent feel "ookey".

On the other hand, at least in some major metropolitan areas, people in my age group are so nostaligic about the holiday that they're appropriating it away from kids.

Society is such a cool thing to observe.