Border Fence and Employer SS# Verification Pass

[realtraveller]

The House passed a resolution calling for a border fence. Really, a border fence extension since there already is a fence near San Diego that has been very effective in stopping illegal crossings there.

But I really like the simple solution to fake SS cards; having a national database that employers could access to verify whether a potential employee is using a fake Social Security number or not. This won't stop employers paying under the table in cash only. But for employers who want to comply, who don't want to hire illegal immigrants, this requirement would give them a way of checking. Employers caught hiring illegal aliens would no longer be able to claim "Well, he handed me a SS card, I had no way of knowing if it was legit or not".

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...667r_page2.htm

[erik_kosberg]

The House proposes, the Senate disposes.

Mr. Hunter's plan calls for 698 miles of fence at five locations along the 1,940-mile border.

Those other 1,242 miles are House-approved crossing points?

[realtraveller]

Some of those miles are going to be so remote (like the Big Bend region of Texas) that few illegal crossers will attempt it.

And that's fewer miles for the border control to have to patrol.

[erik_kosberg]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051221/...co_border_wall

The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it.

Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.

Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives Friday, as "shameful." His foreign secretary, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.

"Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall," Derbez said.

[realtraveller]

Well, if it got that kind of reaction out of Fox, a border wall is going to work.

[poseidon]

If it got that reaction out of Fox, then I'm all for it.

He's being a moron, really. If the fence is built on the US side of the border, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do to stop it. That's like my neighbor saying that I can't put up a privacy fence on my side of the property line so that I don't have to look at him mowing his lawn naked.

BTW, the wall isn't there to keep out migrants. The wall is there to keep out illegal immigrants.

[erik_kosberg]

If the fence is built on the US side of the border, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do to stop it.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Money and electrons don't recognize borders.

[realtraveller]

I'm not sure what 'money and electrons' means. Money sent home by illegal immigrants to family in Mexico is something like the second or third biggest asset to the Mexican economy, right up there with tourism and oil. I don't think there is much money flowing the other way.

Fox is mad because Mexico sends the poor people it doesn't want to the U. S. Then they send money back to Mexico.

A fence would stop the people. Mandatory employer checks on SS# would stop the employment and the money.

[amykhar]

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm all for pitching them back over the border when we catch them. I'm for not allowing them to register their children in our schools unless they pay tuition and I'm all for not granting them social benefits such as welfare.

I'm not for a wall or a fence. I think it's insulting and going to be innefective.

I would much rather see us try to find a way to solve the underlying problem that drives the illegals here in the first place.

Stop American companies from hiring illegals and force them to pay a living wage to American workers.
Find some way to get Mexico's economy moving again so people won't need to come here.
Toughen up the laws regarding what heppens when we catch an illegal alien. Deport them and charge them for the transportation costs each and every time we catch them.
Make the fines so high on American employers who hire them, that they won't dare risk it because getting caught with one illegal employee could wipe out your business.

[anderclayton]

amykhar said

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm all for pitching them back over the border when we catch them. I'm for not allowing them to register their children in our schools unless they pay tuition and I'm all for not granting them social benefits such as welfare.

I'm not for a wall or a fence. I think it's insulting and going to be innefective.

I would much rather see us try to find a way to solve the underlying problem that drives the illegals here in the first place.

Stop American companies from hiring illegals and force them to pay a living wage to American workers.
Find some way to get Mexico's economy moving again so people won't need to come here.
Toughen up the laws regarding what heppens when we catch an illegal alien. Deport them and charge them for the transportation costs each and every time we catch them.
Make the fines so high on American employers who hire them, that they won't dare risk it because getting caught with one illegal employee could wipe out your business.

I'm not sure how it would be insulting personally.

The problem with trying to do something about Mexico's economy is along the same lines as why Fox really can't input much on the idea of a wall. It is their country and if change is to happen it needs to happen within the country rather than it being enforced on them by 'well meaning' members of other countries.

I wouldn't be against many of the ideas presented but really don't agree with the 'living wage' idea personally. Supposedly Seattle (where I'm living right now) has the highest COL in the country right now and from what I've seen the COL proposed is higher than the minimum wage (which is livable in my opinion barring some of the complications from the state wage/hour laws).

Ander

[poseidon]

It also isn't as if Mexico doesn't have the capability to have a good economy. They've plenty of manufacturing, plenty of oil and other natural resources and plenty of people willing to work.

[erik_kosberg]

I'm not one to look behind, I know that times must change
But over there in Barrytown they do things very strange
And though you're not my enemy
I like things like they used to be
And though you'd like some company
I'm standing by myself
Go play with someone else
I can see by what you carry that you come from Barrytown

[wivabef]

Some of those foods, games and customs leaked out of the Polish community and were adopted by others. That experience enriched the culture; it did not degrade it. And while first-generation immigrants were often satisfied to live in an insular community, their children were not. They learned the dominant language and engaged the wider culture.

In short, Hispanic immigrants are doing pretty much what immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Lithuania, Germany and so on did 100 years ago. Why are some people so upset about that today? My guess it has more to do with the color of a Hispanic person's skin than the content of his culture.

Unfortunately, immigrant groups have ALWAYS been regarded suspiciously. This has nothing to do with skin color. Think of how the Irish were treated. People were upset about it 100 years ago as they are today. So-called "natives", a laughable term, are always wary of losing territory.

[drmomentum[$]]

I'm frightened.

There's a taqueria in New Bedford, and I hear that we're getting a mexican restaurant down the street from my house in my own town.

[wivabef]

MMMMMMMMM.

Quesadilla Extravaganza!

[drmomentum[$]]

I'm partial to the chimichangas.

[frazzledspice]

Our school district has been considering a ten year building plan, primarily to accommodate Mexican immigrants who have larger families. Teachers are having a very difficult time in the elementary schools because so many students don't know English. 50% of students in the district receive free lunch.

I don't know if these immigrants are legal or illegal, and if they are legal, I am happy they are here. But I doubt they are all legal.

In a time where American citizens are worried about losing their privacy due to provisions of the Patriot Act and unauthorized wiretaps, I think illegal immigrants have far too many protections.

When their children enroll in school, for example, the schools can't demand their Social Security #'s, even though every child over the age of 1 in the US is required to have one. When they are admitted to emergency rooms, the ER can't demand any proof of legal residency because it would "violate their privacy rights."

I know Vietnamese and Filipino immigrants who waited years separated from their families until their families were permitted to come here legally. One Vietnamese man I know missed his little boy's first, second, and third birthdays (thankfully, his family is now reunited.)

The people who play by the rules are being punished.

The idea of a fence can conjure up images of the Berlin Wall (and I am certain that this is what opponents will try to do.) But the U.S. doesn't plan on having snipers in towers shooting border crossers.

I am sure that this would help counteract terrorism as well.

[poseidon]

It certainly can't hurt, Fraz.

There's a major difference between the Berlin Wall and a border fence. It is the same difference as the Berlin Wall and the Israeli security barrier.

The Berlin Wall was constructed to keep people in. Nobody was shot trying to climb from the West to the East. The ones shot were those who were trying to escape totalitarianism seeking freedom.

The border fence (and Israel's security barrier) are to keep people out.

[realtraveller]

Stopping illegal immigration is a liberal issue also.

When contractors hire illegal immigrants to do drywalling, roofing, rough carpentry and other jobs in home construction, wages fall. The employers don't pay union scale, they hire a day laborer and don't pay worker's comp.

If you used to support your family as a drywaller, and now your competition is willing to work for half what you work for, guess what, you're out of work.

The continuous supply of cheap labor depresses wages for those at the entry level, high school kids can't get summer jobs, and those with the least education suffer most. I don't understand why the unions aren't supporting efforts to curb illegal immigration and efforts to increase the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants.

[erik_kosberg]

I don't understand why the unions aren't supporting efforts to curb illegal immigration and efforts to increase the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants.

Maybe unions aren't buying into simplistic thinking?

[realtraveller]

There's been a 4% decrease in wages. The poor, the uneducated and minorities are most affected.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back504.html

[erik_kosberg]

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1452

“Let’s be clear,” wrote Frank Sharry of the National Immigration Forum, “CIS was birthed by FAIR, the militant anti-immigration group. The CIS executive director moved from FAIR to CIS to head up the organization. Although now independent, the two organizations share the same basic agenda: an American version of what in Europe is called ‘zero immigration.’” According to Sharry, CIS masquerades as an objective, “squeaky clean” think tank, but CIS is “simply churning out high-sounding, low-credibility grist for the high-pitch, low-road anti-immigration forces in the United States.” This assessment of CIS is widely shared among pro-immigrant groups, but CIS studies are not only frequently cited by the “low-road” nativist forces but also by major news media.