Europeans Healthier Than Americans

[realtraveller]

Interesting study comparing Americans over 50 to their European counterparts.

Europe healthier than U.S. - Los Angeles Times

The findings:

1. Older Americans have higher rates of serious diseases than Europeans. More heart disease, cancer, diabetes and arthritis.

2. These diseases add 100 to 150 billion to the treatment costs in the United States.

3. Americans are more than twice as likely to be obese as Europeans.

4. The authors say their findings suggest that we spend more on healthcare because we are less healthy. The big difference being the doubling of the obesity rate.

5. The authors conclude that the study suggests the best way to cut healthcare spending is to put Americans on diets and other measures to prevent disease.

Observations from traveling in Europe:

a. Restaurant portions are much smaller than in the U. S.
b. People walk a lot more.
c. Even older people can be seen riding bicycles to the market.

Any comments or mudslinging?

[phoenixx]

I'd love it if we could change the focus of American health care to prevention and wellness rather than treating after the fact. I'm not sure how to make that happen, though I am sure socializing medicine isn't the way.

[erik_kosberg]

6. Americans have higher rate of both private insurance and no insurance than do Europeans.

FWIW, I've been doing a lot of walking lately. Must be because my dad's a European.

[realtraveller]

It does suggest that a public health crusade directed at obesity (like the one that has effectively cut rates of smoking) would be more effective at cutting health care costs than revamping the entire health care system.

I think Huckabee may have made a speech on this subject but he got slammed as 'blaming the victims'.

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

Poor people are more likely to be obese, less likely to practice wellness habits, and less likely to receive preventive care, so I'd say we're back to addressing poverty in some way. (It would be interesting to see what data there is for the health of the poorest classes in Europe to see if they have the same correllations that we do, but I don't have time to look it up today.)

[erik_kosberg]

It does suggest that a public health crusade directed at obesity (like the one that has effectively cut rates of smoking) would be more effective at cutting health care costs than revamping the entire health care system.

Well, that's one thing that that it might suggest. But it could just as easily be suggesting that the status quo health system is itself a big part of the problem. As is, our current health care system is all but designed to undervalue preventative care.

[Prepoia[$]]

The elderly in Europe are treated with respect, dignity and live with their children doing useful and helpful tasks. Those that feel needed feel and respond more vitally. There's no worry of "if you don't use it you lose it."

[drmomentum[$]]

Maybe if we gave people cheap preventive healthcare instead of cheap hamburgers?

Naaaaahh!

[realtraveller]

erik_kosberg said

Well, that's one thing that that it might suggest. But it could just as easily be suggesting that the status quo health system is itself a big part of the problem. As is, our current health care system is all but designed to undervalue preventative care.

I think that doctors tell all their obese patients to lose weight and tell them that diet and exercise are key. But how to get people to actually do it?

The campaign against smoking seems to have been very effective. "Butts are gross", "smoking is gross" etc. seems to have cut down on teen smoking.

Some sort of 'fat isn't cool' public health campaign is needed for kids. They hide it behind all that baggy clothing.

[hadassahchana[$]]

It depends on where in Europe. My last visit to the UK was a real shocker. The first few times I went, I made sure to bring doubles of any kind of clothing I needed because there would have been no place to buy more - I am fat, and at the time, they weren't.

Now, I've read that the UK is the fourth fattest country in the world. Portions served in restaurants were huge- even huger than here, and three of us would order one meal and have leftovers - and the number of people who were really large on the underground absolutely shocked me.

I know JP was trying to be funny, but I really think he hit it when he made the comment about cheap burgers. Fast food /overprepared food is awful for us, and I'd be willing to guess that it's going to level the playing field between rich/poor in terms of overall health.

[wivabef]

realtraveller said

I think that doctors tell all their obese patients to lose weight and tell them that diet and exercise are key. But how to get people to actually do it?

The campaign against smoking seems to have been very effective. "Butts are gross", "smoking is gross" etc. seems to have cut down on teen smoking.

Some sort of 'fat isn't cool' public health campaign is needed for kids. They hide it behind all that baggy clothing.

I appreciate your concern, but the difference between smoking and eating is one is necessary. Also, there is nothing "cool" about fat and I find the idea of telling a bunch of kids who are overweight that they are not cool is mean. Like they don't know it? Why don't you tell them they are ugly, too?


Judging by what goes out as "healthy" food in the schools I can pretty much guarantee that the first "uncool" thing should be school lunches.

But so many families depend on that for feeding their children, as they could not afford to purchase lunch for their children without the program.

I know this as I work in a food pantry who works to get healthy food options available in the summer months when the kids stop attending school.

Daily phys. ed would be good. A bike for every kid would be good.

[realtraveller]

hadassahchana said

It depends on where in Europe. My last visit to the UK was a real shocker. The first few times I went, I made sure to bring doubles of any kind of clothing I needed because there would have been no place to buy more - I am fat, and at the time, they weren't.

Now, I've read that the UK is the fourth fattest country in the world. Portions served in restaurants were huge- even huger than here, and three of us would order one meal and have leftovers - and the number of people who were really large on the underground absolutely shocked me.

I know JP was trying to be funny, but I really think he hit it when he made the comment about cheap burgers. Fast food /overprepared food is awful for us, and I'd be willing to guess that it's going to level the playing field between rich/poor in terms of overall health.

I was walking through the Forum this summer and I overheard another American women saying what I had been thinking the whole trip, "The restaurant portions here are much smaller than at home". Although, I've read that Europeans are getting fatter too, the Italians are thinner overall than Americans, despite indulging in gelatos every day.

Italians go shopping everyday and buy only what they need for that day. Their kitchens are much smaller and their refrigerators are much smaller. They don't buy in mass quantities the way we do at Costcos and Sams Clubs. That likely cuts down on the amount eaten at home.

Food in Italy is very expensive, which may account for some of the difference.

Many apartment buildings have no elevators so even if you live on the third or fourth floor you walk up.

The cities are more walkable. In Rome, the center of the city is turned into a pedestrians only zone in the evening. In Germany, there are bike paths through the country side and you see old people going to market on their bicycles.

Now I can't ever imagine creating pedestrian-only zones in any American cities even for a portion of the day.

[MrsNormanMaine[$]]

The reasons for less obesity in Europe have all been mentioned here. You can even see it in this country. Elderly in Manhattan have a life expectancy three years longer than those in Brooklyn. The difference- they walk.

The other big difference are that Europeans regard their own health as a personal responsibility, not something to be fixed by a system. They do the minimum amount of preventive maintenance on their own without pressure from the inside. Health care is seen as something to access in a god forbid situation, not as a cure all for a lifetime of self abusive habits.

Dr. MNM

[jgibson2[$]]

We have pedestrian-only zones in our suburban areas. We call them malls. There's one near me that's so huge it's tempting to go back out to my car and drive around to the other side if I'm only visiting 2 places. I don't, but it's tempting.

If the food was restricted to real restaurants and food courts, they'd be much healthier places to visit, but I don't know if you could get away with the restriction on trade.

Walking really helps keep people in shape. When I was in college, I walked or rode my bicycle pretty much everywhere unless it was raining. Having viable mass transit in both college towns meant I didn't need a car, so I didn't have one. Mass transit makes walking a more viable option -- and you have to walk from the end of your bus/train/subway route to your destination anyway.

We don't value preventive healthcare, but I don't know that other societies do. What is the status of preventive healthcare in the UK? In the rest of Europe? I'm not sure that's the magic bullet. Physicians can spend all the time educating they want, but when you leave the office, you drive past lots of drive-through restaurants.

Do they have drive-throughs in Europe? Maybe we should SERIOUSLY consider outlawing drive-through restaurants.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

I live in a city where 1/3 of the people don't have cars, where even if they do, there's so little parking they have to hike from their parking spots to where they are going, where there are a lot of hills, a lot of walk-up apartment buildings, where many people are fanatical to the point of obsession about nutrition and fitness -- and still I see a lot more severely overweight people than I did a few years ago.

It's hard to say what's going on.

Also, while I agree that an anti-obesity campaign along the lines of the anti-smoking campaigns might be a good thing, even if it were a runaway success and every single person in the country reached and maintained a perfect weight, we would STILL need a major overhaul of the health care system, which is inadequate for reasons that go beyond things that can be fixed by people changing their health habits.

[jgibson2[$]]

I wonder if some of the massive obesity we're seeing is a result of BETTER healthcare. Is it possible that people can reach 600 pounds because they didn't die of complications of diabetes at 350? Of kidney failure due to diabetes? Of heart disease?

That's not the whole explanation, but it may be a small piece.

The answer will be complex and a HUGE part of it, IMHO, will start with healthy food in school lunches rather than "what the kids will eat" If they're hungry, they'll eat. We also need to get the kids moving - and that may mean reinstating recess and gym classes because many kids are forbidden to go outside until a parent comes home (often after dark). People who get fat as kids have a much harder time getting the weight to come off and stay off as adults.

There's no doubt that obesity is increasing - and the number of really huge people must have increased greatly. I'm not thin by any means, but they recently put new toilet seats in the public bathrooms at my hospital that look like they're made for giants. I'm afraid of falling in. No kidding. I suppose they were tired of replacing broken toilet seats, but these are scary.



It's called a Big John toilet seat and you can get toilet supports to keep the fixture from coming off the wall with larger users.

[realtraveller]

Good Grief. There's another difference. In Italy and France and much of Europe, you must have sufficiently muscled thighs to hold yourself suspended over the toilet to do your business. No sitting down. Just going to the bathroom a few times a day is exercise.

[magenta321]

I think our dependence on processed and fried foods is a major part of the equation, along with our inability to judge portion sizes.

I'm not sure that making lunches that the kids don't like is the answer. I think you underestimate how stubborn they are. Hell, if you served me fish and lima beans today, I think it would be several days without food before I'd be hungry enough to hold my nose and swallow them. Maybe school lunches have come a long way from when I was in elementary school. I went without lunch on many many occasions because I wouldn't eat a single thing in it back when I was a kid. I don't think that's healthy either. Not to mention how much food got wasted that wouldn't have if kids had choices (for example, I had to purchase a milk every day, which I threw out every day, for all the years I was in public school. If I could have chose water, milk, or juice, I would have actually consumed my "healthy" beverage.)

I'm all for giving kids healthy choices, but, ignoring the fact that children have preferences, and not allowing them to make good choices is silly.

[jgibson2[$]]

I think you underestimate kids ability to adapt. If you serve tasty healthy food, they will eat it -- even if they are used to McDonald's. School lunches don't have to be fish and lima beans.

Matthew and I went to a camp a few weeks ago that has replaced their cook with a chef. Really tasty, low fat food made from scratch, not processed and the kids wolfed it down as eagerly as the adults.

Choices are important, but they shouldn't include tater tots and fried "chicken" nuggets.

[frazzledspice]

How in the world do you "put people on diets?" Even hypnotists are unsuccessful if the potential dieter isn't sufficiently motivated on his/her own.

$6 a gallon gasoline goes a long way towards encouraging walking.

I agree that Europeans lead healthier lifestyles than Americans, but some things would be hard to change.

Their public transportation system is much better than ours, and they have eschewed urban sprawl.

[drmomentum[$]]

frazzledspice said

Even hypnotists are unsuccessful if the potential dieter isn't sufficiently motivated on his/her own.

Gave this skeptic a smile.

-JP