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11-18-2007, 11:35 AM
|  | thread-killa | | Join Date: Dec 2000
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I'm a little annoyed right now.
I'm starting to get emails from other mothers, etc. about the upcoming movie The Golden Compass and how HORRIBLE it's going to be and how ANTI-GOD it is.
Regardless of whether it does or does not have an atheist/anti-Catholic agenda, why is it okay to criticize other people's choice of religion or lack thereof?
I'm sure that I'm sensitive because of my own situation, but while I'm obviously a theist and G is an atheist, I believe in letting my kids hear both sides and decide on their own what to believe. I am also a bit put off by getting emails from people who are essentially bashing half of how my kids are being raised, which I find rude. What if I'd sent out the same type of emails to these same people about Narnia and how it was a thinly veiled encouragement for children to adopt Christianity? |
11-18-2007, 11:39 AM
|  | Epinions Members | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Nutmeg State
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I'd be mad too.
I wouldn't, however, be surprised. There's always been hypocritical people who think that their way is the only way. Maybe they'd like some books to burn too, while they are at it.  |
11-18-2007, 02:48 PM
|  | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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I took my kids to see Narnia, and they seem to still be atheists, but now I feel like I need to keep a close eye on them! Should I also be worried because I took my daughter to a Christening yesterday? If it's possible to pick up religious or irreligious cooties from a movie, how worried should I be about exposing the kids to an actual church??!?!? And if they decide to become Christians, do I need to stage an intervention, or should I let them decide?
Aiiiiiiii!
These paranoid people are showing just how strong they think their belief stands up with their children. That's sad, and telling. |
11-18-2007, 03:26 PM
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From what I hear, the books at least were a strong attack on Christianity (I read the first fifty pages of the first one and couldn't get any farther: yawn).
JP, at least you never had a US Senator introduce legislation to outlaw your religion or lack thereof.
Pippa, the sort of thing you describe is probably my biggest objection to all of the Abrahamic faiths, or at least their more aggressive followers -- the idea that they have exclusive access to The Truth and that excuses any behavior they wish to indulge in, no matter how rude, inhumane or, by any decent standard, immoral. It's hard to remember, sometimes that the ones you hear from are not in the majority and are not representative of that majority. I've certainly had enough contact with conservative and evangelical Christians, both here and in life outside of the Web, to understand that most of them are decent people who would never dream of injecting their beliefs into my family. |
11-18-2007, 03:44 PM
|  | Got my hands over my eyes | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Maryland
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I'm getting pretty annoyed with the emails too. FCOL, isn't 4 times enough? I'm getting them over and over and over and over from the SAME people.
Do they think I'm too stupid to decide for myself whether or not to take my 12 year old to a movie which may or may not follow the anti-religion bias of the books?
ENOUGH ALREADY!
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11-18-2007, 04:04 PM
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I'm an agnostic with an at-a-distance interest in Buddhism but my son is luke-warm vaguely Christian. The horrors!
Somehow, life goes on. |
11-18-2007, 04:06 PM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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BTW - have not read the books and will not be rushing out to see the movie unless, as with any children's film, the reviews are positive.
I'm not surprised that people mistake "anti-Christian" for "anti-god," but it was not my understanding that this was an anti-religious book, or even anti-Christian.
Bob - the way I understand it is that people interpret Pullman's work to be an attack on Catholicism, but he intended it as a statement about religion's good turning to bad the closer and closer religion gets to politics. This I must agree with, if that's how he intended it. But I don't see that as an atheist idea. And from reading about him, he doesn't seem to me to be an atheist. He says positive things about religion. |
11-18-2007, 04:21 PM
|  | In Spanish, I'm Marijuana | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lawn-Guy-Land, NY
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For those, like me, who didn't get the email, Snopes has it. and yeah, Pullman's an atheist, according to Snopes. As for the movie, couldn't care less one way or the other. People will believe what they're going to believe (or not believe); if a movie can alter your beliefs, your beliefs probably weren't all that strong to begin with.
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MJ
It's extraordinary to me that the United States can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can't find $25 billion dollars to save 25,000 children who die every day from preventable diseases.~ Bono |
11-18-2007, 04:29 PM
| | thread-killa | | Join Date: Dec 2000
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JP, THANK YOU for putting it in perspective. I tend to get very defensive when it has to do with my kids and people telling me how to raise my kids and I think I'm MORE sensitive because of the fine line we walk between the his-and-hers belief systems. I answer EVERY question the kids ask with "some people believe x, Daddy believes y, and Mommy believes z" sort of answer. |
11-18-2007, 06:09 PM
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My daughter is reading the series. I have not read it yet, but probably will, so we can discuss it. I understand it to be anti-God.
My daughter is just barely 12 and said she was a little disturbed by all the "hating on God," but that "I know it's fiction."
I asked her if this would shake her faith and then quickly explained to her that it wasn't that I was concerned that her faith would be shaken but rather how she would respond to it. She said, "Mom, it would have to take a lot more than that to shake my faith."
I told her that reading about alternative religions and experiencing them is important, as we dont' want them to be what WE believe but rather for them to be what THEY believe. I told her how my own parents raised us Catholic, but also taught us to be free thinkers and that is precisely what we hope to do for her and her sister.
The movie I don't worry about. It's about the first book and the first book barely touches on anything atheistic. But, if it did, then we would discuss it.
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11-18-2007, 09:50 PM
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Hmm, I haven't gotten any of those emails yet. I didn't get any anti-Harry Potter ones either. How nice!
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11-18-2007, 10:03 PM
| | Got my hands over my eyes | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Maryland
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Margo,
I'm sure Pippa and I could inundate your mailbox if you'd like.
No one here has shown any interest in the books. If Matthew wants to read them, I don't have a problem with that.
My extended family has an interesting variety of religious (and areligious) belief systems. Matthew has been able to hold his own in a religious discussion for several years. It's always interesting to hear one of my siblings doing the "some people believe, but we believe" speech with their kids in response to something he's shared with one of his cousins. He's been doing that since he was 6.
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11-18-2007, 10:30 PM
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LOL. It gets interesting around here, that's for sure. One night at dinner, Buster was taunting G with: "God is A-Li-ive... God is a-li-ive" in that sing-song taunting tune. I think I peed myself. |
11-18-2007, 10:51 PM
|  | A Has Been | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Farmersville, TX
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The only thing I heard about the movie is some kids are plotting to kill God. If that's true kids plotting to anyone is disturbing enough. |
11-19-2007, 12:00 AM
|  | Registered Member | | Join Date: Jul 2003
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OK, I've read the books. I kinda liked the books. I probably won't see the movies. And I really, really don't know why these are "kids" books. Seriously.
I don't like people telling me what I believe, even when I would agree with them when they're not being pushy rat bunglers. That goes for authors. Christ, but one more sentence relating to the concept of "Organized Religion is BAAAA-AAAAAAD and I seriously would have thrown the books through a window.
Yeah, I liked the Narnia books, as a kid and as an adult. And yeah, I know Lewis was pushing an agenda with them. The only time it ever bugged me was in Dawn Treader. Lewis was simply more elegant about it.
So, anti-Pullman folks are being as annoying he is. Well, he probably deserves it. 
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11-19-2007, 12:12 AM
|  | Mom of the Four Men | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada, sort of
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MJ, that link doesn't work. What is it to? And Pip, can you send me the email in question? |
11-19-2007, 01:16 AM
|  | Hot Lips | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: I'm not sure
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I really don't like it when any one tries to trump any one's religion and tell them what is best for them, according to a set of beliefs. We all have our own beliefs and they need to be respected. I haven't read any of these books, but the jist of what I am hearing the movie isn't too anti-Christian, it is the books, and that those who believe they are in charge of everyone are worried that kids will want to read the books after seeing the movie. (If anyone understood that one, I know someone with land to sell in Florida. PM me.) This "craze" reminds me of when Goosebumps books came out and these same people were horrified that kids who read Goosebumps would become evil. They didn't like Harry Potter either.
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11-19-2007, 08:14 AM
| | In Spanish, I'm Marijuana | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lawn-Guy-Land, NY
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Quote: hadassahchana said
 MJ, that link doesn't work. What is it to? And Pip, can you send me the email in question? | Urban Legends Reference Pages: The Golden Compass
Snopes' article on The Golden Compass, complete with the emails that are circulating.
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MJ
It's extraordinary to me that the United States can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can't find $25 billion dollars to save 25,000 children who die every day from preventable diseases.~ Bono |
11-19-2007, 08:39 AM
| | Epinions Members | | Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The City In A Garden
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When I took over as Letters Editor at Green Man Review, among my first columns was a rather heated exchange between a reader who took exception to our review of His Dark Materials and the reviewer. He accused her of pushing an atheist agenda, and she very succinctly pointed out that she was reflecting Pullman's agenda (she, as it turns out, is a Pagan, which is hardly being an atheist -- we have more gods than we know what to do with). He was quite upset about the whole thing, but didn't seem to understand the difference between a nonjudgmental depiction of someone's beliefs and condoning those beliefs.
Eris, you wouldn't believe some of the things that are coming out as juvenile and YA literature -- spouse abuse, child abuse, attempted suicide, the works. All things considered, this sounds rather mild. |
11-19-2007, 10:53 AM
|  | I'm Sparkly in Real Life | | Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: It's not heaven, it's Iowa
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There was someone at one time on the board that had read and recommended the series...damned if I can remember who, but I bought one of the books on that recommendation. Never have gotten around to reading it though.
The trailers that we've been seeing look like they'd appeal to a 13-year old boy, but I haven't heard the "COOL, let's go!" comment yet. I'm going to have to read some reviews and/or synopsis before letting him go, I guess. I didn't know it was such a controversial film.
No secret I have issue with people who wear their religion on their sleeve and try to push it on everyone else. I haven't gotten any emails, but if I did, I'd probably just delete them and/or reply to the sender saying "Thanks for trying to save my soul, but I think I'll take that on myself."
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11-19-2007, 11:07 AM
| | In Spanish, I'm Marijuana | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lawn-Guy-Land, NY
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Quote: lynnzop said
I didn't know it was such a controversial film. | "Controversial" being, of course, in the eye of the beholder.
mj
who notes that Little Red Riding Hood and Black Beauty are on the Banned Books list 
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MJ
It's extraordinary to me that the United States can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can't find $25 billion dollars to save 25,000 children who die every day from preventable diseases.~ Bono |
11-19-2007, 11:27 AM
|  | Insert witty comment here | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alabama
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I believe Bridgette has recommended them a couple of times.
I saw a trailer for the movie a few weeks ago and looked up the books on Wikipedia. I could tell just by the plain description, before getting to the section on "controversies" what the point of the books was about, and said no thanks to anything to do with the movie or the books.
Angie's right about the gist of the concerns - that since the movie is fairly innocuous, people might think there's nothing to be concerned about in the books and just let their kids dive into them. I haven't read them, but from hearing people who believe similarly to my own beliefs who have read the books, they are not, in general, a good idea for young people who are young in their beliefs and faith. (Not saying anything against you, Wivabef, just an "in general" statement".)
Faith issues in the books aside, IIRC, there is a fair amount of not-fit-for-young-kids stuff anyway, like the plotting to kill someone. It being "God" in the books that's being plotted against is pretty bad, but plotting to kill anyone in kids' fiction is pretty horrifying in it's own right! Bob's right, the stuff that's out there these days that passes as YA fiction is pretty bad.
I agree that the tone of the emails is a bit on the hysterical side. But I'm thankful that people want to speak up about issues and warn others when they see something masquarading. Hey, it's certainly gotten folks to talking and investigating for themselves, hasn't it?
As to why people get more worked up over things like this than say, Narnia, I think it has to do with what is the end-message. Is it positive, like Narnia, or negative, like these books? Even if you are an atheist, you can take away a positive message from Narnia that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. These books sound dark, depressing, and full of negativity to me, even if the writing is magnificent or whatever adjective you wish to apply to it.
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