Illegal immigrants and their rights

**hadassahchana**[$] · #1 11-24-2007, 11:27 AM

Yep, hot potato topic. However, I found an article about illegal immigrants suing the government because immigration officials aren't acting fast enough to give them citizenship. Total WTF moment for me.

My question is, since when has U.S. citizenship become a right for anyone who'd like to become one? At the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'm not sure why these guys think that just because they are becoming impatient to get to vote and receive Social Security benefits they should become citizens after entering illegally.

Note: can we discuss this without calling anyone names? Kthxs.

realtraveller · #2 11-24-2007, 11:36 AM

Uh, the people in the story aren't [i]illegal[/Iimmigrants. They came legally and are applying for citizenship.

But the government needs to check out everybody so that snafus like the Prouty woman don't happen. She overstayed her visa, then entered into a fraudulent marriage to get her citizenship, got a CIA job, all the while having ties to terror groups in Lebanon. And these checks take time.

**drmomentum**[$] · #3 11-24-2007, 03:38 PM

What is the relationship between rights and citizenship? I guess that's the base question here.

**drmomentum**[$] · #4 11-24-2007, 03:42 PM

I'm no constitutional scholar, but the US Constitution refers to the rights of "the people" and not "the citizens." It also speaks of inalienable rights, and declaring a person a noncitizen is just another form of alienation, if it is for the purpose of denying them rights. One of those rights is due process. Doesn't mean they're going to win, of course.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #5 11-24-2007, 05:54 PM

I think that's what I wanted, JP, to discuss how people get to become citizens, and why. There are a bunch of reasons to allow immigration, but also a bunch to prevent immigrants from overwhelming the system as well. I guess I just don't see becoming a U.S. citizen as a right owed to anyone who'd like to.

erik_kosberg · #6 11-24-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

But a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services document included in a lawsuit filed this month by Nashville immigrant Yongquing Wang indicates that the FBI expedites name checks in a short list of situations, including those in which there is a pending federal lawsuit.

Santiago said the agency does not comment on pending litigation.

The document, dated 2005, labeled "notice" and printed on U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services letterhead, reads: "In order for USCIS to expedite an FBI Name Check request, one of the following criteria must be established: … Writ of Mandamus — lawsuit pending in Federal Court."

So some smart people (legal immigrants at that) have figured out that filing a lawsuit is a way to game the system. What's more American than that?

realtraveller · #7 11-24-2007, 09:22 PM

What this situation shows is that the government bureaucracy cannot deal with 485,000 names for background checks in any sort of timely fashion. Which made the suggestion in this past summer's 'comprehensive immigration' bill that it would do all this for 20 million illegal immigrants ridiculous. They couldn't even process this summer's rush on passports (which only go to citizens).

I think the courts will say that the federal government has sole authority over who becomes a citizen and who doesn't. The government also has a duty to the rest of us to make sure that those given citizenship have fulfilled all the requirements and aren't felons, members of terror organizations and so forth. I don't think these cases have much chance of success except to get some attention to the situation in the news.

rmthunter · #8 11-25-2007, 09:25 AM

Well, it looks like a situation that needs some attention. It's just another example of our beloved bureaucracy not being prepared to handle (expected) peak loads.

Considering all the information the government is busily collecting on everyone in the country, I find it hard to believe the numbers of people applying for citizenship were a huge surprise.

**hadassahchana**[$] · #9 11-25-2007, 11:37 AM

Does anyone else remember this exact same complaint when the Shah of Iran was deposed? There were hundreds of Iranian students in the U.S. and the immigration folks basically could not have found them if they'd been wearing beanie hats with propellers. Things just don't change much, do they?

rmthunter · #10 11-26-2007, 07:48 AM

But that's the whole point -- if you're here legally, citizen or non-citizen, the government shouldn't be able to find you at the drop of a hat. It's not the government's business to know what you're up to at any given moment.

Of course, if you're here illegally, they can't find you anyway without rounding up everyone with a similar surname.