Learn English or Go to Jail

**amykhar** · #1 04-01-2008, 01:22 PM

Is it an unreasonable thing for a judge to tell two defendants that if they get a GED, a job and learn English in a year, they won't have to go to jail?

FOXNews.com - Judge Orders Robbery Suspects to Learn English or Go to Jail - Bill O’Reilly | The O’Reilly Factor

I think how people respond to this is going to depend a lot on how people phrase the question. If you ask if a person should be required to learn English or go to jail, does it sound more punitive than if you learn English, I won't make you go to jail?

**lynnzop**[$] · #2 04-01-2008, 01:38 PM

Well, my take is that if they were convicted robbers, they should go to jail. Period. They can do their GED and learn to speak English while they are incarcerated.

**theworm**[$] · #3 04-01-2008, 04:30 PM

I agree w/ Lynn.
If I commit a crime, what can I learn to get out of jail? What does one have to do with the other?
I do think that education is important towards reducing crime in the big picture, but when I read this I wondered if it was an April Fools thing. Then I saw it was Bill O.
I don't think its reasonable and I don't think it makes sense.

realtraveller · #4 04-01-2008, 05:10 PM

Wow, what language course could I take to get a Get Out of Jail Free card? I'd like to learn Italian, judge.

Seriously though. If a criminal already knew English, had a job and a high school education, he'd be going to jail. But the no-English, slacker, drop-out gets a free ride. Makes no sense.

**jgibson2**[$] · #5 04-01-2008, 08:59 PM

I'm inclined to say screw the whole thing. Send them back where they ALREADY speak the language and give their legal immigrant slots to someone who didn't commit a crime.

eplovejoy · #6 04-02-2008, 10:29 AM

The idea that someone could be forgiven criminal behavior for learning English is hard to defend, but the judge is probably grappling with a larger problem: overcrowded prisons. Too many people are packing our correctional facilities and judges are under pressure to come up with creative sentences to avoid imprisonment, where possible. What we need to do is to decriminalize drug use and make treatment available to free up the roughly 33% of the prison space that is being used for non-violent offenders. Then there would be room for the robbers and their visiting English teachers.

**amykhar** · #7 04-02-2008, 10:43 AM

But don't judges set arbitrary requirements for probation all the time? If a criminal is a first time offender and the crime is non-violent, probation is often the punishment. Then, there are certain requirements for that probation. Stay away from people who get you in trouble. Go to AA meetings, whatever. Is this any different?

eplovejoy · #8 04-02-2008, 10:48 AM

I think the English requirement is different. Staying away from troublemakers or getting sober can presumably make one less likely to commit a crime. Learning English doesn't seem to have the same potential.

rmthunter · #9 04-02-2008, 12:31 PM

Sorry, but a lot of this is beside the point. While I'm generally sympathetic to a concept of criminal justice that works from rehabilitation rather than mere punishment, there is the problem of even-handedness. I can't get away from the consideration that part of the context here -- or maybe I mean "subtext" -- is a very strong anti-immigrant sentiment (which O'Reilly has done his share to foster, and that's probably why this story is getting play on his show).

First, if these guys have committed a felony -- and the transcript doesn't seem to mention what they were convicted of, which for some reason doesn't surprise me all that much -- can't clutter up people's minds with real information -- they are subject to deportation, if I remember correctly. Fox is making a big deal out of the "learn English" part because it's got a high buzz factor. David Neiwert has documented quite thoroughly that most immigrants, whether they are here legally or not, do make an effort to learn English to the best of their ability, and their children who are raised here, of course, have excellent command of the language. (He's also documented that they are not taking our jobs away, they are not hogging our social services -- Medicaid, welfare, food stamps and the like -- they are not causing prices to increase and wages to decrease, or anything else that the Tom Tancredos would like for us to believe. Here's a key post.) (If anyone would like some solid information on immigration, racism, and the unholy interface of the two in this country, I recommend reading Orcinus regularly -- it's something Neiwert follows closely and about which he is quite well-informed.)

At any rate, I'm with Lynn and Wormie -- they can learn English and get their GEDs while in jail. They won't have much else to do.

**amykhar** · #10 04-02-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Staying away from troublemakers or getting sober can presumably make one less likely to commit a crime. Learning English doesn't seem to have the same potential.

I'm not so sure. If learning English makes them more employable, they may be less likely to commit crimes as well.

**drmomentum**[$] · #11 04-02-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

amykhar said

I think how people respond to this is going to depend a lot on how people phrase the question.

This struck me the same way, Amy. I guess it's true for a lot of stories. Especially when many of us are too busy to read the entire paper, and sometimes get our news from the headlines.

I know I've been guilty of that, and I assume other people are as well. I read in depth whenever I can, but my reading time is limited (journal articles, technical books, documentation, long work emails, news... I love reading, but it gets ridiculous after a while).