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10-13-2008, 07:12 PM
|  | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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I'd like to applaud McCain for his support for low income housing and immigration reform, but it's tough to get his attention over all the shouting.
One person is especially puzzled over McCain attacks on Obama via ACORN. That would be Bertha Lewis. Quote: |
“It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans." ”We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform," she said.
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By drmomentum at 2008-10-13
Pic above is McCain at an ACORN-sponsored event.
If McCain has changed him mind about low income housing, or immigration reform, or whatever, I think that's fine. But it looks to me like he's been involved with events sponsored by ACORN, and it looks to me like that was a good thing. I hope that, if McCain is elected, we find out that these attacks on Obama and ACORN were just rhetoric and that he deep down still believes in helping low and moderate income families get a leg up.
-JP |
10-13-2008, 08:40 PM
|  | Registered Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008
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"if McCain is elected, we find out that these attacks on Obama and ACORN were just rhetoric and that he deep down still believes in helping low and moderate income families get a leg up."
Don't let Reverend Wright hear you say that. His theory that the "country run by rich white people who don't care about anyone but themselves" wouldn't hold up then. I'd like to think that either candidate would support helping people help themselves. I worry about ACORN though with some of their branches under investigation for fraud. KTNV ABC,Channel 13,Las Vegas,Nevada,News,Weather,Sports,Entertainment,KTNV.com,Action News .:. Investigation Into 65,000 Questionable Voter Registrations ACORN Submitted Ohio county seeks fraud investigation of ACORN - Boston.com Rokita calls for ACORN investigation / nwi.com
just to post a few. |
10-13-2008, 10:39 PM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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Oh noes! McCain pals around with frauds! I'm mock concerned! |
10-13-2008, 11:37 PM
|  | In Spanish, I'm Marijuana | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lawn-Guy-Land, NY
Posts: 28,784
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*snert*
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MJ
It's extraordinary to me that the United States can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can't find $25 billion dollars to save 25,000 children who die every day from preventable diseases.~ Bono |
10-13-2008, 11:40 PM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008
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Seems like you can't be involved in any way in politics without being corrupt in one way or another. |
10-14-2008, 12:03 AM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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But honestly, why shouldn't McCain or Obama be involved with efforts to help low income Americans? His history here is a mark in McCain's favor.
Low and moderate income Americans spend most of their money; they're a potential economic engine. Instead of slamming community organizing, the Republicans should be embracing it and talking about how Americans are going to pull themselves out of trouble with the help of government whose job it is to provide vital infrastructure, the same way they've always done for business. There is tons of unexploited potential.
The ACORN attack is just a bad campaign move. None of those links posted mention McCain's or Obama's links to ACORN. So I recommend nobody hold it against McCain.
-JP |
10-14-2008, 12:12 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008
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Why do we low and middle income workers need the government to pull us out of a hole? It's not the government's job to provide us with jobs, there are so many jobs out there waiting for someone to fill them. One big problem is (that I see around here) is that people don't want to work a job for ~$10 an hour, they want to start out earning 52k a year or else they'll stay living in their parents' basement.
I agree with your statement on ACORN and attaching it to either candidate, it wouldn't do either any good it seems. I don't believe though that ACORN is the only one that needs scrutiny. |
10-14-2008, 01:09 AM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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Quote: Qed said
 Why do we low and middle income workers need the government to pull us out of a hole? It's not the government's job to provide us with jobs, there are so many jobs out there waiting for someone to fill them. | I don't expect or assert that the government will give them a job, so I am probably the wrong person to answer your question.
-JP |
10-14-2008, 01:17 AM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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Ah, I think I see the misunderstanding -- when I mentioned that Americans would pull themselves out of trouble with the help of government, you assumed I meant they couldn't get a job without the government.
Government can provide infrastructure that makes the efforts of private industry more efficient, and the same is true for the workforce. Education is one example. A simpler way to word it is "investment spending" in America. Like it or not, today's economy is big enough and our infrastructure has been neglected enough that a great deal of investment is needed.
People don't want lower-paying jobs? I'm not surprised. The middle and low end of the earnings spectrum has been stagnant for a decade. At the same time, we've been (explicitly at times) told to go out and spend more by our leadership. Want to see the seeds of a credit crisis? There you go.
-JP |
10-14-2008, 07:04 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008
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Yes, I see that you put it that the government provides the infrastructure. Now that I've had a nights rest.
For up here, (I live in northern NY) if someone gets a starting job for ~$10, that's decent pay. Like I mentioned though, if the people who are starting out think they're above $10 an hour, they got too much allowance growing up. |
10-14-2008, 08:33 AM
|  | thread-killa | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,325
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I'm sorry... what? $10 an hour is decent pay?? For whom? High school students? In a world in which medical insurance hovers around $1000 a month and gas is over $3 a gallon, please explain to me how anyone can afford to live on $20,000 gross a year, much less help support a family on that. Or pay for daycare. |
10-14-2008, 09:04 AM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
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Quote: 
The Yorkshire Terrier, one of the breeds owned by John McCain, and the Poodle,
voted "best breed for the Obamas" by dog lovers via the American Kennel Club’s www.presidentialpup.com poll are canine candidates for the White House.
| Holy canines, Batman! If I read that right, John McCain pals around with domestic terriers! |
10-14-2008, 09:55 AM
|  | Insert witty comment here | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alabama
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__________________ Melanie
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10-14-2008, 10:35 AM
|  | A Has Been | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Farmersville, TX
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Pip,
Qed said starting wage and that's what's going on here, too. Plenty of jobs around here pay less than that, so $10.00 would be decent. |
10-14-2008, 10:55 AM
|  | I'm Sparkly in Real Life | | Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: It's not heaven, it's Iowa
Posts: 23,998
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Oh JP....you have topped yourself with that one......
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10-14-2008, 11:37 AM
|  | Mom of the Four Men | | Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada, sort of
Posts: 17,274
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Quote: drmomentum said
Holy canines, Batman! If I read that right, John McCain pals around with domestic terriers! |  : |
10-14-2008, 02:09 PM
| | In Spanish, I'm Marijuana | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lawn-Guy-Land, NY
Posts: 28,784
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Quote: drmomentum said
Holy canines, Batman! If I read that right, John McCain pals around with domestic terriers! |
__________________
MJ
It's extraordinary to me that the United States can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can't find $25 billion dollars to save 25,000 children who die every day from preventable diseases.~ Bono |
10-14-2008, 03:58 PM
|  | Hello, I'm Deb | | Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,227
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Here's an interesting article from Social Policy, a journal published by The American Institute for Social Justice (AISJ) and The ACORN Institute.
__________________ Support our Marines "If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other." - Carl Shurz, German general and politician
Last edited by conradd; 10-14-2008 at 05:35 PM.
Reason: separate the links
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10-14-2008, 05:10 PM
| | In Spanish, I'm Marijuana | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lawn-Guy-Land, NY
Posts: 28,784
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The post above has two links, not one (just so others don't make the same mistake I did and click the wrong one, then wonder where the article is).
__________________
MJ
It's extraordinary to me that the United States can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can't find $25 billion dollars to save 25,000 children who die every day from preventable diseases.~ Bono |
10-14-2008, 05:35 PM
| | Hello, I'm Deb | | Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,227
| |
Thanks MJ - fixed it. 
__________________ Support our Marines "If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other." - Carl Shurz, German general and politician |
10-14-2008, 06:49 PM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
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Quote: slick4591 said
Pip,
Qed said starting wage and that's what's going on here, too. Plenty of jobs around here pay less than that, so $10.00 would be decent. |
Thanks for helping with clarification with that Slick.
Granted $10 an hour isn't whiz bang awesome but starting out, that isn't half bad at all. pays the rent (again up here), you could probably still qualify for medicaid health care here in NY. Heck, it's somewhere to start. |
10-15-2008, 01:27 AM
| | Usagi Yojimbo | | Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Birthplace of American Democracy
Posts: 16,716
| |
So, apparently McCain gave the keynote speech at that ACORN-sponsored event.
I agree with what he's saying here. I think we should see a path to citizenship for these people. He has worked with ACORN in the past, it's too bad to see him demonizing them now when they clearly share goals. These are goals which I applaud.
Definitely, voter fraud, and even voter registration fraud ought to be investigated. Considering history, it's a subject that Democrats can certainly agree with Republicans. Even unenrolled folks like me can agree! And I'm glad ACORN appears to feel the same way, since they appear to be policing their own cases of voter registration irregularities.
The lawsuits appear to be spurious. Ken Blackwell in Ohio is not the most trustworthy person on secure voting. We'll see what comes of that, but we've been down that road before. Former U.S. Attorney David Iglesias was fired by Alberto Gonzales when Atty. Iglesias cited insufficient evidence to pursue ACORN on alleged voter fraud. (wrongfully fired in a politicizing of the justice department: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/s0809a/final.pdf )
So McCain shouldn't be ashamed of being associated with ACORN. Quite contrary to showing he's corrupt as we might infer from Qed's earlier comment, I think it's more to his credit.
-JP |
10-15-2008, 07:16 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
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Well Dr. I am concerned with all the voter fraud cases against ACORN recently. I suppose we'll have to wait until the judges and jury's hear those cases. | |
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