Canadian Skaters Get Gold...

**mrisch**[$] · #1 02-15-2002, 02:19 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._dc_44&cid=578

BUT, do the others lose theirs? I doubt it.

vania · #2 02-15-2002, 02:26 PM

Wow-- interesting. That was a frustratingly vague article. Can't wait til more details are released!

v.

vania · #3 02-15-2002, 02:40 PM

Here's more from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/15/oly...row/index.html

The Russians will keep theirs.

I think this is a fair decision. Even though it could be argued that each of them really deserves the medal (Canadians skated flawlessly but their program was easier), I think the mere fact that one of the judges was dirty leaves some amount of question about the validity of any scores.

v.

**Joubert**[$] · #4 02-15-2002, 02:48 PM

This was a crock, sorry. Bad judge? Great --- then they'll go down in history as "they wuz robbed". But bureaucrats redefining the medal process days later? That's when it ceases to be a sport.

quasar · #5 02-15-2002, 02:57 PM

I think this was a copout, a way to placate people and move on without having to make any real changes or having any responsibility for the actions of the judges.

I watched the press conference. They weren't willing to say anything specific, to say anything beyond "the French judge has been suspended for misconduct. We are awarding a second gold medal." No details, no specifics. No admittance of anything more than a single judge doing something wrong. It sat very badly with me.

In fairness, it hasn't been very long and it's not reasonable to expect a full understanding of all details at this point, but I got the distinct impression that that's it and we're supposed to move forward as if there was one corrupt judge and everything else is honky dory. It isn't - this has happened too often in the past to be a one time thing, and I for one would like to see the sport take advantage of this opportunity to clean house a little.

Janice

**mrisch**[$] · #6 02-15-2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quasar
I think this was a copout, a way to placate people and move on without having to make any real changes or having any responsibility for the actions of the judges.

I agree, and I think they should continue with the International Arbitration to "let the light shine in" on the problems with judging.

TheUnknown285 · #7 02-15-2002, 03:04 PM

Here's my question, if the French judge was suspended, the why wasn't the Russian judge?

I think this was a good decision, but figure skating and all other sports with judges should either clean up or be removed from the Olympics. The Olympics should judge who did best, not who is more popular.

**conradd** · #8 02-15-2002, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Here's my question, if the French judge was suspended, the why wasn't the Russian judge?

I've been wondering the same thing. My sympathies are currently with the French pair who were expected to win the Ice Dancing competition in the first place. This must be tremendously stressful for them and I can't imagine going into a competition with this as a precursor. I just hope the fallout doesn't swing the pendulum in the opposite direction and that their performance is judged solely on merit, not political fall out.

Deb
who was disgusted by the "emotional fragility" defense

kuuleimomi · #9 02-15-2002, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by conradd

I've been wondering the same thing. My sympathies are currently with the French pair who were expected to win the Ice Dancing competition in the first place. This must be tremendously stressful for them and I can't imagine going into a competition with this as a precursor. I just hope the fallout doesn't swing the pendulum in the opposite direction and that their performance is judged solely on merit, not political fall out.

Deb
who was disgusted by the "emotional fragility" defense

Really? Where's Italian pair? I thought, you know, they are one of the best pairs, 2001 World Champions, just for the heck of it, you know, they were expected to win as well, you know, they dance really good, heck it, they dance so darn bloody good, so emotional, you know, *kicks dirt* they skate, not jump, but it's dancing, the most subjective figure skating of all. Just wait to see the scandal there. I so hope that Maurizio Margaglio and Barbara Fusar Poli win. I love those guys. Heck that French pair is half-Russian.

Oh, and there's a nice detail in the CNN article, found it amusing.

Quote:

The awarding of the second gold medal is the first step of the investigation, Cinquanta said, and the inquiry into the judging will continue.

First step, aye? I thought it usually goes the other way around. Oh well, if that's how you do it on the other side of the world, let it be so. Because who really gives a bloody damn about that gold anymore? It has lost its weight and means nothing. It means nothing to Russians because they were robbed. It means nothing to Canadians because they did not win. Now let's see, who will file the protest next and what kind of protest it will be.

This Olympics lost its face. What Baron Pierre de Coubertin aimed to bring in this world became what you see right now. It's totally disgusting.

Finn

vania · #10 02-15-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kuuleimomi

Because who really gives a bloody damn about that gold anymore? It has lost its weight and means nothing. It means nothing to Russians because they were robbed. It means nothing to Canadians because they did not win. Now let's see, who will file the protest next and what kind of protest it will be.

This Olympics lost its face. What Baron Pierre de Coubertin aimed to bring in this world became what you see right now. It's totally disgusting.

I totally agree with that. If I were a figure skater (HA! HA! Biggest joke in the world!), it would be hard to muster up the enthusiasm to even BOTHER with the whole thing. I just keep wondering what these ice dancers are thinking as they prepare to start their programs today. Rumors swirling that the outcome has already been decided-- of course this is an event which has been notoriously mis-judged in the past.

The scoring system needs to be SERIOUSLY overhauled in order to bring any validity or integrity back into the sport.

v.

eplovejoy · #11 02-15-2002, 05:31 PM

The decision is rubbish. If the United States applied the same techniques to its elections, both George W. Bush and Al Gore would be president.

**mjfrombuffalo**[$] · #12 02-15-2002, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eplovejoy
The decision is rubbish. If the United States applied the same techniques to its elections, both George W. Bush and Al Gore would be president.

that could have been a good thing, the best of both worlds: we'd be protecting the environment and

...

sorry, couldn't think of anything George has done that I particularly like and don't think Gore would have done... ;-)

mj

vonboob · #13 02-15-2002, 05:36 PM

Quote:

This Olympics lost its face. What Baron Pierre de Coubertin aimed to bring in this world became what you see right now. It's totally disgusting.

Olympics presenting something disgusting happens quite often, so why the shock?

**conradd** · #14 02-15-2002, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kuuleimomi
[b]Because who really gives a bloody damn about that gold anymore? It has lost its weight and means nothing. It means nothing to Russians because they were robbed. [b]

Just out of curiosity, how were the Russians robbed on this one?

Deb

vania · #15 02-15-2002, 06:00 PM

I'm of the mindset that the Canadians deserved the gold, but when Finn says the Russians were robbed, I'm thinking that she means their gold has lost its significance.

I mean, we can't really blame the skaters for what happened. They got a gold medal, which is the highest honor, only to have it marred by controversey. Now they have to share the gold, and you know it's got to decrease the meaning for them. Who wants the stinky ole' gold medal now, anyway???

I don't think anyone wins in this case.

poseidon · #16 02-15-2002, 06:19 PM

I have a solution to this entire issue... a very simple solution

86 figure skating as an event. Replace it with the Synchronized Polar Bear Club Swimming. Drill a hole in the ice, let "athletes" with gargantuan beer guts jump into the water, and let them do a routine.

faireheart · #17 02-15-2002, 07:24 PM

Life's all about choices, isn't it?

Which is worse, the fact that scandal has permeated the sport of ice skating for most of my life, or the fact that in the 21st century, people are now speaking out and taking steps to remedy the corruption?

Every journey starts with a single step, and this is the first positive step, hopefully, towards resolution of a worldwide problem. In the meantime, the Olympic games is terribly sullied and once again, the USA is right in the midst of it all. First Tonya Harding, now SLC games.

I feel sorry for the Russian skaters, the Canadian skaters, and the skaters yet to skate in their categories. The questionable judging being spotlighted has to cause a lot of doubts about whether his/her performance will be judged fairly from this point onward in this XIX game.

I wonder if ANY of the ice skating judges are fair, to be honest. It seems to me that it would be pretty hard to sit beside the deal-making and foot signals and not know that my vote didn't mean Jack because the fix was in.

My sports-oriented husband says there have been conflicts in judging in other Olympic sports ( something about a US basketball game) and that if the Olympic committee wants to be fair, then they had better review a lot of sports, not just ice skating.
t's an imperfect world, but it appears that finally many people are not bowing to the sanctity of the "Olympic tradition".

I am glad there will be a separate ceremony for the Canadians, and I hope very much that people who are closer to the situation than I am will be courteous and respectful to the Russian gold medal winners, also. They skated their hearts out, and what happened isn't their fault.

Someday, there will be a better judging system.
I don't know what would be better at this point.

What do the rest of you think?
How should this seemingly controversial competition be judged in order to be fair and impartial?

kuuleimomi · #18 02-15-2002, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vania
I'm of the mindset that the Canadians deserved the gold, but when Finn says the Russians were robbed, I'm thinking that she means their gold has lost its significance.

I mean, we can't really blame the skaters for what happened. They got a gold medal, which is the highest honor, only to have it marred by controversey. Now they have to share the gold, and you know it's got to decrease the meaning for them. Who wants the stinky ole' gold medal now, anyway???

I don't think anyone wins in this case.

Exactly!

Deb, I meant, only one pair got the gold originally. They were the winners. The only winners. Now they have to share it. They have lost exactly the half of the gold that way and more than that, the medals have lost a lot of meaning. I think they feel robbed. Though I sure can't speak for their feelings and they are the only people in the Russian Olympic Team who have not commented that, but I bet they feel pretty darn bad, though it might appear to you they have not lost anything.

Finn

nicholmere · #19 02-15-2002, 07:33 PM

I was listening to a press conference with Pelletier. He was joking that they were hoping to get the bronze too to round out their collection.

Nice to see they are keeping a sense of humour about the whole mess.

kuuleimomi · #20 02-15-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eplovejoy
The decision is rubbish. If the United States applied the same techniques to its elections, both George W. Bush and Al Gore would be president.

Peter,

Every single Russian feels the same way. Well, almost. Because not everyone gave a damn about American Elections, though we were forced to watch that in the news for a while. Well, there was a joke,

K, what I meant to say, is that every single Russian agrees that the decision is rubbish.

Finn

kuuleimomi · #21 02-15-2002, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vonboob

Olympics presenting something disgusting happens quite often, so why the shock?

Face had been lost long time ago. I completely agree. I did not mention shock, aye? Or you think the other side is in shock? Don't think so. I did not mean the figure skating tourney as the disgust, it's just one element of it.

Finn