Do you consider self published to be truly published?

[amykhar]

I guess I am a bit of a snob. I would never ever consider myself as being a published author unless my work had been accepted by a legitimate publisher or publication. Self Published books just seem like literary masturbation to me.

What do y'all think?

Amy

[mjfrombuffalo[$]]

I agree. A friend of mine self-published and, while I thought her book (more like a pamphlet) was OK, I wasn't impressed. Self-published stuff just hasn't gone through the vetting it needs to reach the shelves.

Then again, some of the drivel that's out there has gone through the non-self-publishing process and hasn't had enough vetting, but that's another thread...

mj

[frazzledspice]

One of my friends has had two mysteries published.

Publishing companies do very little to promote the work of new authors, because they only want to work with the sure winners.

She did 99.9% of her own book promotion, and has the expense records to prove it. This included buying flyers, going to book signings, visiting bookstores, sending flyers out to bookstores throughout the country, sending the book to Hollywood producers, etc.

Her reward is that when her 4 year contract expires with her current publishers (a small publishing company) she will be in a better position to win a contract with a book company that's willing to spend some money to promote her book.

There isn't that much difference between what she did and a person who self-publishes a book and promotes it heavily in order to attract the interest of a publishing house (like that Christmas Box writer....)

I read an article in Money or Kiplingers about a year ago, saying that, for new authors, self-publishing is usually much more lucrative than working with a small publishing house, particularly if the book is for a niche market.

(Because my friend's book involved ghosts and old plantations, she also contacted every bed and breakfast in the country, thinking it would be a good addition to their libraries.)

To add insult to injury, when she tried to get the public library to carry her first book, they asked her to DONATE it!!! (Hooterville, USA.....sigh.....) When she had her second book published they agreed to buy a few copies.

I think self-publishing is a business decision, and that it doesn't necessarily mean the writer isn't worthy of recognition.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

I think it really depends. There are different kinds of self-publishing.

On the bottom of the food chain are the vanity publishers. I consider them scam artists or borderline scam artists. They prey on the hopes of naive wannabe writers, charge them an awful lot of money, don't do any effective publicity, and are just generally, in my opinion, manipulative and sleazy and sad. In this category I would put the book publishers who run those little ads that say "Do you want to be a published author?" and the poetry book scammers, who say they're running a contest, and then it turns out everyone is a "winner" -- as long as they buy the anthology.

But there is legitimate self-publishing. It's a lot cheaper these days to print a book yourself in relatively small quantities then it used to be, so I think it's totally legit to pay a print shop for printing alone (not for the supposed editing, design, and publicity that the vanity presses promise, but don't deliver). Then you can do what you want with the book, whether it's just giving it to friends, selling it through a website, selling it at events related to your subject matter, or trying to do traditional bookstore distribution. I think this might work well for a book that's good, but so specialized that a publishing house isn't interested -- where there is a definite, but small number of people who would like to buy it. The big advantages are that you get to keep a lot more money per book sold, and that you don't have to worry about a publisher yanking your book out of print. The big disadvantage is that there's a lot more work involved -- you have to assume a lot of the tasks that a publishing house would take care of for its authors.

I think also that the internet has blurred the distinction between self-publishing and traditional publishing. Now that anyone can "publish" themselves online, I think that attitude has carried over somewhat to print as well. It used to be that if you wanted to be read, your only choices were to be accepted by a traditional publisher or go to a sleaze vanity press. Now there are a lot more options, so it's not such an either/or thing in terms of prestige.

Once in a while someone self-publishes a book that becomes a hit, gets picked up by a traditional publisher, and becomes a best, or at least a very good, seller.

As far as the snob factor goes -- well, look at what some of the major publishing houses are churning out these days -- hard to think that there's all that much relationship between intrinsic worth and acceptability to publishers.

Publishing has gotten a lot more focused on blockbusters. It's harder to get a book that would have a decent, but modest-sized audience accepted by a publisher than it used to be. Someone could write something a lot more worthwhile than the latest lose-weight-by-eating-only-beets-and-creampuffs bestseller, but would have a much harder time getting it published by a major press.

[Blackelve]

I'll give you both the writers side and the editors side here.

First the writer:

My first book was self published, not vanity press, but self published. Which meant I had to turn in a manuscript in proper ms format, cover letter and bio. The publisher read ms, if they appreciated it then I was welcome to use the services provided for 99.00.
I also had to sign a contract.
I make 10% of each book sold, 12% directly from the publisher. I am paid quarterly and must pay in taxes.

Most small press publishers use a self publishing service (the editor side here)

My second book was also self published, which was actually done for a christmas gift for families and friends. It, like the 1st book, was sold on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Booksamillion and mortar stores also.
One year later a bigger house editor had read the book, liked it and invited me to send it to them after the contract ran out.

The president of the HWA first book was a self published book, then picked up by a small press and now is being published by Leisure Publishing.

Editor Side:

I used a small press for the first anthology I did (Moon Over Madness) and it was one of their top sellers for the first six months. (royalties have been over 100.00 per quarter)

The second anthology I am involved with now has been picked up from a bigger publishing house, but not "the big houses"...they told me the reason they picked me up with a few newcomers to the world of horror was because they had noticed the promotional tools that I had stressed when I self published.

So self publishing isn't what most people consider nowadays, it is actually called POD (print on demand), and that is far from the old days of vanity print.

Danielle

[Sordid-1]

Amy:
Self Published books just seem like literary masturbation to me.

I agree, 100%.

[AuntieEmma[$]]

I think publishing's not what it used to be.

-- The rise of the chain bookstores and the nearly total demise of the independent stores has put a lot of pressure on publishers to put out books that will appeal to the buyers for the chains.

-- A similar consolidation within the publishing industry has killed off many of the smaller presses.

Both of these mean there is less room for books that don't appeal to a mainstream audience than there used to be.

A book that doesn't do well right off the bat is more likely to be pulled out of print.

Publishers are less nuturing of their mid-lists -- the books that never were blockbusters but that had steady, if small, sales throughout the years.

A lot of books also seem to be poorly edited these days. Publishers seem to be taking less care with everything other than their blockbusters.

Less than a tiny fraction of a percent of the books published will ever become blockbusters. For the 99.9999% of authors who write other types of books, who aren't likely to get a lot of hand-holding and attention from their publishing houses, self-publishing doesn't seem like such an inferior alternative.