You can't be a copy writer, content writer, fill in the blank, over night!

[yogagirl]

I've been perusing some boards lately and noticed a few on this thread as well. I am a freelance writer with some years under my belt and went off on my own to pursue freelancing and consulting (freelance writing and PR/marketing consulting).

I've seen a lot of people post and think it's easy to become a content writer. I don't mean any disrespect for people in which English is their second language, but if you cannot write grammatically correct English you won't be able to land jobs and you won't be able to "just write content" successfully.

Take a copy writing course and most definitely take an English grammar course. Your English skills need to be polished. I've heard copy writers post that you don't need to be a good writer in order to be a good copy writer. WRONG! How can you tweak sales copy and create a magical flow with copy if you cannot string sentences together that make logical sense?

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but writing isn't easy AND not everyone has the natural gift to be a writer. Yes, you can learn grammar and that's a good start, but you can't just take one course and wham! you are going to sell millions by writing content.

I have a degree in journalism and was trained in AP style. My emphasis in school was public relations, and have worked in PR, marketing and fundraising.

It's taken me years since I've been out of school to hone my talents and skills and I still feel like I'm learning (especially with my writing).

I'm not here to discourage those of you who truly have a passion to write. I'm trying to discourage those people who think that writing is just another "job." It's not--it's a "calling" and I hate seeing the field of writing and writers bastardized.

You can't learn how to write over night. I laugh at these claims (even by money making copywriters) that they can teach anyone to write. However, you can't teach a non-native English to write effective copy if they don't know the language. English is one of THE toughest languages to crack.

Writing isn't a get rich quick scheme and I'm tired of it being treated like it is. Writers have been given a bad name because of some of the lousy scoundrels out there who are stealing content. Those people aren't writers--they are content thieves.

I'm just trying to take a stand here for all the legitimate writers out there trying to earn a living and have the credentials and experience. Freelance writing--whether you are a journalist, copy writer, content writer, novelist--is something that cannot be learned in one day.

[jgibson2[$]]

First of all, welcome.

Second, I don't know what you read here that set you off, but look around. There are several people here who are professional writers, a couple who teach, and a lot more of us who occasionally free-lance (for money), but who have no illusions of making a living writing. I don't think you've seen 'a lot of people' post HERE that they think it's easy.

[yogagirl]

jgibson2 said

First of all, welcome.

Second, I don't know what you read here that set you off, but look around. There are several people here who are professional writers, a couple who teach, and a lot more of us who occasionally free-lance (for money), but who have no illusions of making a living writing. I don't think you've seen 'a lot of people' post HERE that they think it's easy.

Judy, this was not meant to be a disrespectful post to other professional writers. I was speaking in general in terms of writing. I read a few posts on here that trivialized the business of public relations (and writing press releases). PR entails a lot more than just writing releases (as a lot of fellow PR practitioners can attest to on here).

This wasn't meant to slight other writers on here. I was merely expressing an opinion. Obviously, there are many successful writers on this board (and other writing-specific boards).

I was talking about a common theme I've seen lately on writing boards. I'm new here and I didn't mean to cause any waves. I have a lot of admiration for my fellow writers.

[pluckyduck]

[scratches head]

I've been hanging out with writers for a l-o-n-g time, and I can't recall anyone positing writing as a get rich quick scheme or for Lord's sake an easy vocation. (Two very talented good friends are right now in the midst of nail biting book deals -- will the deals happen, won't they happen, can the rent be paid in the meantime.)

Who thinks writing is a get rich quick scheme?

Now - anyone can write.

Anyone can be taught to write and it is elitist to claim otherwise. Writing is 90% craft. Craft can be learned. Being able to write clear, coherent communications is not a mystical gift from on high given only to the chosen. Some people learn the craft much easier than others do, but anyone can learn. I think the word "trained" or "studied" works better than "legitimate" which, you know, has that whole elitist thing going on again.

Gifted writers, that's a whole 'nother ball o' wax. They are rare. There is a mystical gift on high given out to those few....but that doesn't preclude anyone else from learning how to write.

[jgibson2[$]]

I found the year-old post to which you responded - after several members had already expressed the same view more gently. I understand your POV. Few things annoy me more than someone with no education referring to herself as a nurse. It's not a protected job title any more than writer, but it still annoys me.

I think that those of us who occasionally free-lance appreciate the work involved in writing. I've never had to work hard at marketing, because I only write for a couple of very specialized niche markets. There will always be small, specialized markets that can't afford to hire full-time writers, but that benefit from someone who knows that field and who knows how to write. Even the best paying nursing journals don't remotely approach the hourly rate I make working in a clinical setting, but it is a pleasure to get a check for writing.

[thinkerlady[$]]

Judy, I couldn't agree with you more. But may I add that writing is also an art. I have taught writing to middle school students, and elementary age students for many many years. It is hard hard work to effectively teach writing skills AND instill a love for writing. Each child has something in them to communicate and to teach them to write it in an interesting and informative way is hard work. One of my most rewarding moments was when several of my students had their work published in a national anthology. But I digress, I wanted to add to your comment about receiving payment, just like a painter looks for that piece to sell, so does a writer, and that payment is very rewarding, financially and emotionally.

I taught writing for almost 20 years. Now I am taking an easier route. I teach Science!!

[jgibson2[$]]

Writing is an art, but teaching writing is also an art. One reason I've opted out of the homeschool co-op for this year is the writing program. I have a child who can't spell worth a damn, but who can compose interesting fiction and non-fiction works. They're trying to teach a class to write according to a formula which he simply does not need. It's not a bad formula. It's Andrew Pudewa's 'excellence in writing' program, but the way they teach it doesn't fit Matthew's style. They're being altogether too rigid about applying the formula.

[wivabef]

You may want to change your lede, Yogagirl! LOL!

This board does have one area for Epinions writers, many of whom are professional writers and many of who are not. So, perhaps that is where you got that idea.

Plus, I think there are a lot of people who are professional writers who hang out here on this board who let it all hangout and don't worry about the spellcheck or grammarcheck.

But, for the most part, this is a nice community of true tradespeople who know they will never strike it rich writing but must do so.

I am always amazed at how much more people make than I do, and still they whine about how little they make. "Wow!" I think to myself, "maybe I should be a nail technician or a cashier!"

Actually, did the cashier thing and I said, "they want me to push credit cards on that poor woman with the WIC slips?"

I digress, as usual.

My pet peeve is business owners who think they can write radio copy and then voice it.

Spent 14 years writing radio copy. Never met a client who could do both. There was this one guy who owned an advertising agency.. but even he was smart enough to hire voice talent.

And I feel like a dinosaur in the newsroom of which I have only been in for the last two years because I'm trying to explain why you don't use "you" in a news brief.

Sheesh.

Because people can pick up a word program and type doesn't mean they can actually write. Agreed.

Although, I have never heard of these get rich quick schemes. It's so preposterous a proposition it makes me snort coffee through my nostrils.

Hey, Judy! Isn't it true I can make more money delivering the Gazette than writing for it?

[pluckyduck]

Angie & Judy -

I'll agree that some types of writing are art, but I stubbornly insist that most of writing is craft. Writing is available to everybody. It's not a gift for a precious few. I am made crazy when someone's excuse for sloppy communication is "Oh, well, I'm not a writer."

Unless one is completely illiterate and signs an X for one's name, one is a writer. (Even people who overuse the word "one" in a poorly constructed sentence are writers -- just not very good ones. ) So, you know, learn to do it better.

Being paid for writing in and of itself is a matter separate. I could (theoretically) learn the craft of sewing (theoretically) as the slowest student in the class. I could do it, eventually. My works would never hang in a museum. No one would ever pay me to sew gowns for them. But I *could* learn how to sew.

If people thinking they might one day get paid for writing makes them work at the craft, then I hope wild rumors of get rich quick schemes do abound. We need lots more writers, not fewer. C'mon, everybody try! I've got a Strunk & White right here you can borrow.

She said, stubbornly.

[phoenixx]

Meh. She/he was just trying to go the quick route to getting "seen" and known" in this established forum - wonder if she/he has a book/ebook/webinar on writing to sell at some point? I'd hazard a guess yes - familiar tactic on forums.

[jgibson2[$]]

Andrea,
Anyone can learn to paint. I took a commercial art course way back in the day when computers were room sized. I got into the course because my older sister is a gifted artist. I learned huge amounts from the very talented teacher -- talented in his art, talented in his ability to teach the craft of producing commercial art. Monet I'm not, but not only can I write for small sums of money, but I can produce small items of art for which people will pay small sums of money. I wouldn't have tried without the encouragement of this particular teacher.

When I describe writing as art, that's what I mean -- IOW, you're right, most of it is craft. Occasionally you find someone with an exceptional gift for storytelling which benefits from improving the craft of writing, just as there are incredibly gifted artists -- whether it's with a brush or a chisel. Teachers who can transmit the techniques and help people to love what they do -- those are truly gifted people (OK, I'm biased, my mom spent many years helping people to love math).

Leslie,
You're probably right. If so, she probably will get the idea that it could be a waste of time to market. Antagonism as a starting point doesn't fly too well around here.

[thinkerlady[$]]

Teaching someone to write doesn't always work. Teaching the mechanics of good grammar and word selection is easy, but trying to convey to the student to write from their heart, and to have it meaningful, well, Judy you are right, that is an art. Most kids/adults can learn good grammar, but to be able to creatively intertwine words so that they stimulate meaning and feeling, well, that is an art. It is a hidden talent that not everyone has, but the earlier it is recognized in a child the stronger the writer they become. I have found that most students that possess this inner talent, do NOT like to write, it is a difficult thing for them to do, because they put more into the writing than simple mechanics.

Now I teach Science, and I also teach writing, but differently. I am looking for the technical, and specific, not really creative. My creative writing involves critical thinking, and teaching that is teaching the craft of writing. For students to be able to write critically, technically, AND creatively, well then writing becomes an art, and that is not easy for the truly talented student. Most kids/adults can be taught the craft of writing, and will do it well, but only a few will be able to raise the bar and make it an art. We have come upon the feeling, in the middle grades of our school, to approach the teaching of writing from different angles, making the "art" of it more comprehensive.

I have been teaching many many years. I have been at my present school for 5 years, and in that time I can think of only 2 students that I can say have the "gift" of writing.

[Prepoia[$]]

Occasionally you find someone with an exceptional gift for storytelling which benefits from improving the craft of writing, just as there are incredibly gifted artists --

I don't believe this happens "occasionally" but is always true. No matter what our talent, it benefits either from practice time or learning the craft of what we do. We can be talking about writing or sports or just about anything. And when it comes to writing, it always is improved by learning the craft and then letting the words flow. But if you don't know how to structure the words and hang them together, no one will be able to enjoy the unique phraseology or ideas.

[lynnzop[$]]

phoenixx said

Meh. She/he was just trying to go the quick route to getting "seen" and known" in this established forum - wonder if she/he has a book/ebook/webinar on writing to sell at some point? I'd hazard a guess yes - familiar tactic on forums.

Oh yeah, because no one here would DREAM of pimping their book/ebook/webinar.

[jgibson2[$]]

Prepoia said

Occasionally you find someone with an exceptional gift for storytelling which benefits from improving the craft of writing, just as there are incredibly gifted artists --

I don't believe this happens "occasionally" but is always true. No matter what our talent, it benefits either from practice time or learning the craft of what we do. We can be talking about writing or sports or just about anything. And when it comes to writing, it always is improved by learning the craft and then letting the words flow. But if you don't know how to structure the words and hang them together, no one will be able to enjoy the unique phraseology or ideas.

I wasn't very clear in my statement. I meant to say that while everyone can benefit from learning the craft of writing, only occasionally do you find someone with an exceptional gift for storytelling.

[jgibson2[$]]

lynnzop said

Oh yeah, because no one here would DREAM of pimping their book/ebook/webinar.

At least most have the good sense to try to make friends first, instead of telling us how crappy we are.

[Prepoia[$]]

jgibson2 said

I wasn't very clear in my statement. I meant to say that while everyone can benefit from learning the craft of writing, only occasionally do you find someone with an exceptional gift for storytelling.

I agree. Good storytellers need to get it down orally and then clean it up with the craft knowledge afterwards.

[phoenixx]

lynnzop said

Oh yeah, because no one here would DREAM of pimping their book/ebook/webinar.

The people who have been participating honestly, regularly here can pimp whatever they wish and have my attention. Starting off with an antagonistic post like this is a common practice touted in spam marketer ebooks for people who are only in a forum to pimp product, not to participate. No clue if that is what this is, but it raises my anti black hat seo/ spam marketing hackles

[emeleel]

I think Lynn just forgot her at the end of her post.